When will France start with engineers and heavy tanks?

[Delpheus]

You may have a point about France lacking engineer support companies in their templates. But to cry for realism, only to also demonstrate that you've abused the 1-div training exploit seems disingenious and counterintuitive. Besides, you don't need to add the engineering companies until they're actually needed in battle, so in 1936, you have around 4 years before you need them - if we're talking about the historical game. You can spend some of that time building the necessary support equipment, which you are not prevented from building in 1936.

First, the one division training exploit was necessary to obtain historical accuracy by allowing the player to add engineers into their divisions.

Gaining xp in that way In the old system has nothing to do with my want for historical accuracy. I have said many times the one division training exploit is stupid and it was right to fix it, but now the problems I have pointed out here are more glaring and so much more of a problem now that xp is precious, like France not having engineers in their divisions (I would not complain if Germany also had to buy them...but Germany gets to start with them!?)
This puts you even further behind....

 

[Riftwalker]

the whole reason is so that france will fall and we can actually have a WW2 game. if france doesn't fall, Germany ends up just being slowly pushed back in the next few years.

this is why they have a ton of debuffs that don't make sense

 

[Delpheus]

the whole reason is so that france will fall and we can actually have a WW2 game. if france doesn't fall, Germany ends up just being slowly pushed back in the next few years.

this is why they have a ton of debuffs that don't make sense

What about someone who wants to play France? Just screw them because you want easy mode against them? A Germany player should have to do good and EARN their victory...it should not just be handed to them for free. How boring is that? Part of a historical ww2 game is actually fighting a historical war including against France.

Your comments make NO sense...it's very contradictory. You say you want a historical game while at the same time you say you want France to NOT be historical. What!?

 

[Hoi Neuling]

I said Tanks not heavy Tanks, that´s the difference.

I personaly use more light and mediums, because they are faster, much more maneuverable and have more Maintaince. The Heavys are slow, need more resources to be produced. They get a Maintaince-Failure faster then you look or get outpaced by faster units they sweep from all sides and circle them.

And France have the thinking of WW 1 and Marginot Line. Therefore they produce the fast building light Tanks and if you get lucke some of the heavy ones. The Devs showed it in 2 Vids for 1.9-Version where they played France manually.

If you have the Ressources to produce 1 or 2 Prototype-Heavy-Tank-Devisions or have such already then you are a lucky guy.

 

[Hoi Neuling]

Pretty much what we did in Ultra. France has a plethora of different tanks in production at the start (8), we will also add stockpiles of WW1 & pre-war tanks including the 2 superheavies the French Army actually had (yupp, look it up). Problem will of course be that most of these tanks have a bad reliability, are slow and the doctrine is, in all honesty, shit. I sunk 2-3 months of research into our tank trees mainly because of France, because their tank production was a gigantic, corrupt, politically infused mess straight outta hell. Think companies producing tanks just so the government could keep them from bankruptcy, but doing it extra slow so they could squeeze the max of money out of it.

So I aggree with him. France took what it has from beginning on and produces light Tanks and Medium ones, like all other Countrys in Europe and in the West.

 

[Delpheus]

I said Tanks not heavy Tanks, that´s the difference. I don´t use heavy tanks too, because they are slow, need more resources to be produced and are destroyed faster you can rebuild them. They get a Maintaince-Failure faster then you look or get outpaced by faster units they sweep from all sides and circle them.

And France aren´t able to it in the Game about the economy Crises it has to manage. The Devs showed it in 2 Vids for 1.9-Version. If you wanna play historicaly with heavy Tanks then you have to play it manually.

But then you don´t have ressources for much more needed units and Economy.

Your dislike of heavy tanks and your perceived problems with them does not change the historical fact that France had the research, was producing them in 1935, and their heavy tanks were arguably their best tanks. If a player wishes to produce them and utilize this historical advantage or not should be their decision.

Furthermore, to insult historical accuracy even further, Germany starts with heavy tanks available for production that are equal to the Char B1!!? Do you not see my point about how stupid and historically inaccurate and imbalanced that is?

 

[vermicious knid]

France should have the tech for the Char B1, as it was indisputably in production prior to the start of the game. Not many had been built yet, so they probably shouldn't start with a stockpile of them (only 34 built by the end of the run in 1937).

Hard to see how adding that tech would unbalance anything. France isn't going to build a significant number of heavy tanks until they fix their lack of mils.

 

[Meglok]

My biggest beef is that France has 3 tech slots while Italy has 4. Even Soviets start with just three. And Italy of all countries has 4!

That is a game balance tweak. Italy has enough issues, throttling it's tech even more would just make it fall even faster.

same reason France start with only 6 MIL (previous patch). They are programmed to fail in 1940!

This. Anything and everything can be adjusted to provide better balance. AI France must fall in most cases to continue the game. Same reason ai China is set up to fall to Japan in most runs. Japan without China's industry means game over real fast for Axis.

People seem to assume that everything in vanilla HOI4 will match history. It won't, never has, and never will. The devs have been very clear they will tweak whatever they need to to maintain their vision of balance.

 

[Crecer13]

Does the USSR have the researched T-35 1934 in the game? Years of production: 1932-1939. Not.
Does the USSR have paratroopers in 1936? When only by the end of 1933 there were already 29 airborne battalions and brigades that became part of the Air Force. Not considering the airborne units that were part of the ground forces. Again no.
Does the USSR have transport aircraft in 1936? And again, no.
Why the USSR has a starting and unresearched 37-mm 1-K gun (1930) and not 19-K (1932). If you justify that the USSR does not have a studied anti-tank gun, then it should be at least 53-K (1937)
Why does the USSR have a mass assault at the start of the doctrine, if the Theory of Deep Operation aka Deep Battle was the main doctrine for the USSR in the 1930s, it has been developing the since the 1920s and is a Blitzkrieg with massive use of the Airborne Forces. And before the start of World War II during local conflicts (minor wars), this was the main doctrine.

 

[Delpheus]

That is a game balance tweak. Italy has enough issues, throttling it's tech even more would just make it fall even faster.



This. Anything and everything can be adjusted to provide better balance. AI France must fall in most cases to continue the game. Same reason ai China is set up to fall to Japan in most runs. Japan without China's industry means game over real fast for Axis.

People seem to assume that everything in vanilla HOI4 will match history. It won't, never has, and never will. The devs have been very clear they will tweak whatever they need to to maintain their vision of balance.

Do you really think getting a 10 xp upgrade for an engineer company to their starting template and starting with the ability to produce heavy tanks will create a situation where France can never be defeated?

France still has a bazillion debuffs to ensure they lose already, and Germany already has buffs to ensure they have a non-historical advantage to tanks.

It should not be both.

If France does not have heavy tanks at the start when they rightfully should, that's fine, but why the hell does Germany get them?

So not only are they taking away French heavy tanks, they are adding German heavy tanks. We have to deal with BOTH historical inaccuracies at once!

I seriously doubt if France starts with heavy tank research and the small historical number of heavy tanks produced at that point that it will make them invincible. They already don't have good military industry. They have 8 mils compared to the German 28... Come on.

 

[TheKillingJoke]

Germany doesn't even make heavy tanks in the beginning of the game. They dont have anywhere near the industrial capacity nor resources to afford it. They're strat is lights. Them having heavy tanks researched only frees up a research slot to the Tiger.

 

[Delpheus]

Germany doesn't even make heavy tanks in the beginning of the game. They dont have anywhere near the industrial capacity nor resources to afford it. They're strat is lights. Them having heavy tanks researched only frees up a research slot to the Tiger.

Uh....right, they should not be making heavy tanks. That's a huge part of my argument. So you're really supporting my point that they should not have them.

France, however invested in heavy tanks and did actually produce them and they were very impressive on the battlefield.

 

[Sparticulous]

I think the devs do need to watch the world war 2 channel on youtube to understand the war they are making a game from.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP1AejCL4DA7jYkZAELRhHQ

 

[Delpheus]

I think the devs do need to watch the world war 2 channel on youtube to understand the war they are making a game from.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCP1AejCL4DA7jYkZAELRhHQ

That would be a good start.

 

[TheKillingJoke]

This isn't a simulator. This is a sandbox. They are not going to balance the game around 100% realism. That is absurd.

 

[Delpheus]

This isn't a simulator. This is a sandbox. They are not going to balance the game around 100% realism. That is absurd.

Why is asking for heavy tanks at the start so upsetting?

They have been making accuracy changes for a long time. Like now Greece starts with artillery.

 

[Madzai]

People seem to assume that everything in vanilla HOI4 will match history. It won't, never has, and never will. The devs have been very clear they will tweak whatever they need to to maintain their vision of balance.

I understand that it is a big balance issue - making so France is playable, for well, players, making France beatable in reasonable time most of the time by German AI and at the same time provide a challenge for a player-controlled Germany, but can't it be solved with modifiers that apply depending where player is and which path he choose? I mean it's the fourth game in series, can't they came up with some decent solution to this issue instead of nerfing France and stripping it from the things it historically had? Yet each time Germany wins by being overbuffed instead of actually betting a lot and playing it's cards right at right time as it actually did?

 

[Delpheus]

I understand that it is a big balance issue - making so France is playable, for well, players, making France beatable in reasonable time most of the time by German AI and at the same time provide a challenge for a player-controlled Germany, but can't it be solved with modifiers that apply depending where player is and which path he choose? I mean it's the fourth game in series, can't they came up with some decent solution to this issue instead of nerfing France and stripping it from the things it historically had? Yet each time Germany wins by being overbuffed instead of actually betting a lot and playing it's cards right at right time as it actually did?

This guy gets it. Beating France should take skill. It should require strategy and tactics, like the German air dominance and land doctrines which they already actually have in the game.

 

[Delpheus]

Idea... instead of punishing a France PLAYER why not just script the AI to make bad decisions. That way, in single player, the AI will be dumb and lose like everyone wants to happen. However, while playing as France in either single or multiplayer...you are not scripted to fail, obviously, making it so you can actually play the game without being expected to lose.

 

[bitmode]

why not just script the AI to make bad decisions

Don't expose the developers' master plan like that!