When To Build Infrastructure Over CIV

When To Build Infrastructure Over CIV

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SonofWinter

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This topic has been slightly addressed but in a very confusing way.

Prevailing Advice: 1936 Germany start, build CIV, only build CIV for the first 1-2 years.

Cute advice but this advice needs to be tempered with a bit of math. CIVs cost 10,500 vs Infrastructure 3,000. That means for every CIV you build you could instead build 3 and ½ infrastructures. Instead of 2 CIVs you could build 7 infrastructures.

Click on the infrastructure button and you will see the goods being produced. Now click on a province once and see how much of a return on investment you are getting from a single infrastructure increase. Is it 2+ goods?

Is Niederschliesen giving you +5 goods per level of Infrastructure built? 4 infrastructure gives you +20 goods, that’s 2.5 CIVs on the open market for the price of 1 CIV.

Build Infrastructure, especially if you went Free Trade, in provinces that produce a lot of natural goods. If your Infrastructure gives you 2 or more goods from an Infrastructure improvement, then do it and it now. The Excavation bonuses will only increase your return on investment.

EDIT: Please be aware that if a good is not being exported by anyone, then it won't be exported from you, either and you may need to hold off on increasing production of goods that are not desirable in 1936, such as Aluminum.
 
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SonofWinter

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This assumes your goods are being bought?
Once you go Free Trade, they will. Also, this means that many fewer goods you have to buy.

Not sure if you ever bought 8 steel from the Soviets for 1 CIV at a time? I know I do that a lot.

If I build 4 infrastructures instead of 1 CIV, I don't have to pay the Soviets 2 CIV for 16 steel, when I can just get it from Niedeschliesen or Hinterpommern. (Not sure on the spellings of these.) Either way, you save 2.5 CIVs for yorself, if you just upgrade those Infrastructures and you are NOT fueling the Soviet Economy with extra CIVs.
 

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Once you go Free Trade, they will. Also, this means that many fewer goods you have to buy.

Not sure if you ever bought 8 steel from the Soviets for 1 CIV at a time? I know I do that a lot.

If I build 4 infrastructures instead of 1 CIV, I don't have to pay the Soviets 2 CIV for 16 steel, when I can just get it from Niedeschliesen or Hinterpommern. (Not sure on the spellings of these.) Either way, you save 2.5 CIVs for yorself, if you just upgrade those Infrastructures and you are NOT fueling the Soviet Economy with extra CIVs.
Who will? I just did a test with Germany trying to count civs till anchluss (88 btw) where free trade was my first pick, and I had all of 1 civ from exports.

I dont really care about resources or a result, military production in the early game.
 
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Who will? I just did a test with Germany trying to count civs till anchluss (88 btw) where free trade was my first pick, and I had all of 1 civ from exports.

I dont really care about resources or a result, military production in the early game.
Hungary, Italy, Nat Spain, Romania, Japan, everyone will buy your goods and give you more CIVs via trade.

Get to 150 pp and do Free Trade. At that point you will get more CIVs than you would from just building CIVs.

Everyone wants to buy your goods, you just have to produce a surplus for them to buy it.
 
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Hungary, Italy, Nat Spain, Romania, Japan, everyone will buy your goods and give you more CIVs via trade.

Get to 150 pp and do Free Trade. At that point you will get more CIVs than you would from just building CIVs.

Everyone wants to buy your goods, you just have to produce a surplus for them to buy it.
I just told you free trade was the first thing I did, immediately after rhineland finished. I only got 1 civ from exports.
 
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I just told you free trade was the first thing I did, immediately after rhineland finished. I only got 1 civ from exports.
How much surplus goods do you have? Do you have 8+ surplus goods?
 
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I just told you free trade was the first thing I did, immediately after rhineland finished. I only got 1 civ from exports.
Not worth your time arguing like this. Just show him a screenshot and be done with.
 
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Not worth your time arguing like this. Just show him a screenshot and be done with.
Yes, he should show me a screenshot of having 20 extra productions of a single good, just rotting there.

The AI is not stupid BTW, it will only buy in batches of 8, so it won't buy your 4 surplus goods, if it can get a full 8 from the Soviets.
 

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Yes, he should show me a screenshot of having 20 extra productions of a single good, just rotting there.

The AI is not stupid BTW, it will only buy in batches of 8, so it won't buy your 4 surplus goods, if it can get a full 8 from the Soviets.
I have way more than 8 surplus of a variety of different resources. I'm not even using all of the resources that are available for my own use, not that that would make a difference. AI isn't buying any of it. Hopefully these attachments are viewable for you.
 

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I have way more than 8 surplus of a variety of different resources. I'm not even using all of the resources that are available for my own use, not that that would make a difference. AI isn't buying any of it. Hopefully these attachments are viewable for you.
You only have +8 surplus of aluminum and NOTHING else, what variety are you talking about?

Please show me a screenshot with the the aluminum tab selected, I want to see if you are importing it.
 

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You only have +8 surplus of aluminum and NOTHING else, what variety are you talking about?
The green numbers at the top of the screen have nothing to do with the resources that people import from you.
Please show me a screenshot with the the aluminum tab selected, I want to see if you are importing it.
You don't need to see that tab to see if I'm importing it, it says what my imports are at the top of the screen. But, here you go anyway.
 

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The green numbers at the top of the screen have nothing to do with the resources that people import from you.
The Green and Red numbers are showing you whether or not you have goods for export. If you have less than 8, you simply cannot export ANY surplus.
You don't need to see that tab to see if I'm importing it, it says what my imports are at the top of the screen. But, here you go anyway.
As for the aluminum, I can see that you are correct, it seems the entire world wants to export and no one is importing, so I will have to adjust my original stipulation, that you should only improve infrastructure for goods desired by other countries or for yourself. Steel/Rubber/Oil are clearly desired in 1936 and you do not have any surplus for export, while Aluminum is not yet desirable in 1936.
 
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The Green and Red numbers are showing you whether or not you have goods for export. If you have less than 8, you simply cannot export ANY surplus.
This is wrong. The green and red numbers at the top are a summary of whether you have enough resources for your current production orders.

What determines what goods you have for export is your raw resource production, as modified by your export percentage from your trade law. Free Trade for example automatically takes 80% of your production and shoves it into exports, regardless of whether or not anyone is buying. This leaves you with only 20% of your resources for domestic use. Not using your share of the resources will not increase exports.

Go ahead and test it yourself. Start an SP game as country A. Use all your resources in production or whatever, tag to someone else and check how many of a resource Country A is exporting for you to buy. Buy however many, tag back to Country A and see whether the green/red number on top changed.
 
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CF is correct. Nearly all of what you "export" via your trade law just disappears without any compensation. Only what another country actually imports from you grants you a trade CIC.

In my experience, it seldom makes sense to build infrastructure just for the resources gain. There are some provinces for some countries where an infrastructure investment makes sense, but they are pretty few and far between. Generally speaking, you can get more bang-for-your-buck from the prospecting for resources decisions in mid/late-game, which only cost PP (which becomes rather fungible once you've finished filling out your cabinet, etc).
 
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This is wrong. The green and red numbers at the top are a summary of whether you have enough resources for your current production orders.

What determines what goods you have for export is your raw resource production, as modified by your export percentage from your trade law. Free Trade for example automatically takes 80% of your production and shoves it into exports, regardless of whether or not anyone is buying. This leaves you with only 20% of your resources for domestic use. Not using your share of the resources will not increase exports.

Go ahead and test it yourself. Start an SP game as country A. Use all your resources in production or whatever, tag to someone else and check how many of a resource Country A is exporting for you to buy. Buy however many, tag back to Country A and see whether the green/red number on top changed.
I will have to examine this again. So you are claiming that even though the Niederschiliesen Steel production goes up by 5 with each infrastructure, you don't actually gain 5 steel for surplus?
 

Corpse Fool

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I will have to examine this again. So you are claiming that even though the Niederschiliesen Steel production goes up by 5 with each infrastructure, you don't actually gain 5 steel for surplus?
Increasing the infrastructure in a state that produces will increase the amount of resources that state produces. If the previous steel production was 100, and increasing the infrastructure +1 added another 10 steel to its total production, total resource production would go from 100 to 110.

If you were also on free trade that exports 80% of your resources, without the infrastructure upgrade you would be exporting 80 steel and retain 20 of the steel for domestic use. Upgrading the infrastructure will be adding 8 more steel to your exports, and retaining an additional 2 steel for new totals of 88 export and 22 retention.

Yes, in that specific example, upgrading the infrastructure which only costs 3000 IC would be allowing foreigners to trade an entire extra civ that would have taken 10800 IC for you to build yourself. Seems like a pretty good deal. But this assumes that people are already buying all 10 factories worth of your previously exported steel, and that they have both the extra factory and the desire to trade for the 11th.
 
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SonofWinter

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Increasing the infrastructure in a state that produces will increase the amount of resources that state produces. If the previous steel production was 100, and increasing the infrastructure +1 added another 10 steel to its total production, total resource production would go from 100 to 110.

If you were also on free trade that exports 80% of your resources, without the infrastructure upgrade you would be exporting 80 steel and retain 20 of the steel for domestic use. Upgrading the infrastructure will be adding 8 more steel to your exports, and retaining an additional 2 steel for new totals of 88 export and 22 retention.

Yes, in that specific example, upgrading the infrastructure which only costs 3000 IC would be allowing foreigners to trade an entire extra civ that would have taken 10800 IC for you to build yourself. Seems like a pretty good deal. But this assumes that people are already buying all 10 factories worth of your previously exported steel, and that they have both the extra factory and the desire to trade for the 11th.
Steel is always in high demand. You start at 250 surplus available for trade on 1/1/1936 (I just checked,) and as you've noticed per your own screenshots, you go down to 0 because everyone wants to buy your steel, at least the steel you're not using. :D So yeah, you should have plenty of steel for sale on the open market and a lot of CIVs for it.

But that assumes that you are correct about having +20 steel from 4 levels of Infrastructure. Which should net you 2.5 CIVs.
 

Corpse Fool

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Steel is always in high demand. You start at 250 surplus available for trade on 1/1/1936 (I just checked,) and as you've noticed per your own screenshots, you go down to 0 because everyone wants to buy your steel, at least the steel you're not using. :D So yeah, you should have plenty of steel for sale on the open market and a lot of CIVs for it.
In my screenshots I have a massive 330 steel out there floating around the market. 41.25 civs worth of steel for anyone who wants it. And no one is buying it.

I went down to 0 steel at the top of the screen because while I have 412 raw production of steel, being of freetrade is exporting 80% of it, 329.6 (rounded up to 330). This leaves 82 left for domestic use. I have 20 factories on Kar98k's that consumes a total of 40. 3 on support equipment, 2 on artillery, 2 on tanks and 1 on motorized that consume another 6+4+6+1=17 steel. 4 dockyards on uboats that consume 1 steel each, 2 on destroyers that consume 2 steel each, 1 deuchland class, 2 scharnhosts and 1 admiral hipper that consume another 17 steel. 40+17+4+4+17=82. I am using all 82 of my domestically retained steel.

Even if I cancel all of my production and open up that 82 steel and wait another month, no one buys my steel. Even if I swap to limited exports which makes the green number on top even bigger, no one buys my stuff.

If you are getting people to buy your stuff, I would love to know how.
 
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