When to build high density buildings and offices

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Silvayr

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Hello everyone, i just unlocked high density residentials and offices. My city looks like this:

20180917170031_1.jpg


When should i start with the high density residentials, commertials? Do i need to make them next to medium roads? I have 2 elementary schools and 1 highschool, should i make university before offices? Can i places offices next to my industry do they complain about pollution? Are there anything else i should know about them?
 

Glitcher

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Dear God, that is the UGLIEST city I've ever seen! :eek: You are obsessed with grids! The road layout just looks like the same identical square pattern repeated for all eternity. It's actually hilarious that you stopped the grid right at the city limits instead of buying a new tile and expanding further.

Okay, you're obviously a rookie at city-building, so let me give you my first advice: START AGAIN! This city is a write-off because the infrastructure is a clogged network of squares with no room for expansion. What happens if you want to run a train line through your city? You can't! You didn't leave any space left. Look, here are a three cardinal rules to help you start afresh on a new city:

RULE #1: Spread out your city! Don't just start building from one spot and then jam everything right next to it. You have LOADS of room! Start building a neighbourhood on one area of the map, then move to a different location and start building a new neighbourhood. Then move out further and build a new neighbourhood elsewhere. Leave some space in between these areas for future expansion like adding a highway or something. You'll need lots of breathing room for a large infrastructure as your city grows, and you obviously have none here. If your districts are very far apart, you can connect them with a simple two-lane highway to reduce travel time and then remove this later as the gap between districts fills.

RULE #2: Don't use grids everywhere! Did I mention this is the ugliest city ever? I'm not kidding. Aesthetics count for a lot in city-building and that includes creating an appealing layout for your blossoming town. Take a look at my city of 50'000:

blindinglights1_by_glitcher-dcn5xdc.jpg


See that! I didn't rely on grid patterns everywhere. I varied my road layout to keep things diverse, molding it along the terrain. You can also identify various districts and where I left space in between them. If you can't see it, take a look at this screenshot:

blindinglights2_by_glitcher-dcn5xsh.jpg


This is a newer area of the city. You can see an industrial district on the coast in the bottom-left, a low-density district on the bottom-right, two high-density districts at the top, and a new office district in the center. Look how much space I left in between them! That's what you should be aiming for. I can fill up these districts as my city grows while still having enough room to weave train lines or large roads between them.

RULE #3: Get a better map! It's hard to tell from one screenshot, but I'm guessing the map you're playing on is as flat as Holland. That's probably not a good idea as it contributes to you falling into a grid pattern without terrain features to hinder you. Look on the Steam workshop and download a map that has a diverse and rugged landscape: Mountain ranges, deep valleys, winding rivers, vast deltas, perilous cliffs, etc. This will force you to mold your road layout according to the terrain and eliminate your grid obsession. Grids are efficient for some high-density areas, but you also want the challenge, fun and beauty of designing a fluid road layout that can fit the landscape.


Sorry if it seems like I ignored your original questions, but your city obviously has bigger problems than just zone density or education. Use medium or large roads where you anticipate larger traffic flow (something that's impossible to do in a homogeneous grid layout). You can zone high-density in new districts if you have enough demand and gradually replace low-density districts over time. However, don't eliminate low-density housing entirely because those attracts families that are more compelled to procreate than the yuppies living in high-density apartments. As for offices, those require educated citizens so you keep an eye on your citizens education to see if your city can support offices. If your city is still young, you should stick with various industries until more citizens graduate.
 
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ristosal

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Okay, you're obviously a rookie at city-building, so let me give you my first advice: START AGAIN! This city is a write-off because the infrastructure is a clogged network of squares with no room for expansion.
Nonsense. There's only 7,500 people, and that residential grid will work as long as there's no through traffic at all (just people getting in and out). Those industrial and commercial areas won't work though and they need a rework because of higher amounts of traffic. You do have a point though, an entire city with that kind of pattern will not work.

My first tip would be to buy a couple tiles of land so that you can get a second highway interchange in to the northeast of that industrial area. This will spread the load of incoming and outgoing industrial traffic. Then proceed to change the tight grid pattern so that wider roads have less intersections at industrial and commercial zones.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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Glitcher

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Nonsense. There's only 7,500 people, and that residential grid will work as long as there's no through traffic at all (just people getting in and out).

No, you're wrong. You're completely ignoring the potential of future growth and replacing those blocks with high-density zones. The traffic will collapse under a gridlock of narrow two-lane roads. You need to plan ahead and think long-term even at the start of the game, which is why I encourage spreading out your development. Ask yourself: Is there a downside to spacing out your districts?

Even without any traffic congestion, you're also ignoring that this uniform layout is ugly as sin. Have you no concept of urban aesthetics?
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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Even without any traffic congestion, you're also ignoring that this uniform layout is ugly as sin. Have you no concept of urban aesthetics?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. :)

Functionally, there are too many intersections close together. Traffic wise, that might be okay for low density residential, but it also results in a lot of pavement that costs money instead of zoned land that generates money.

Also, every city starts out somewhere, as does every city builder (player).
 

deanwebb

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Hello everyone, i just unlocked high density residentials and offices. My city looks like this:
When should i start with the high density residentials, commertials? Do i need to make them next to medium roads? I have 2 elementary schools and 1 highschool, should i make university before offices? Can i places offices next to my industry do they complain about pollution? Are there anything else i should know about them?

High density can supplement low density areas. In residential, they tend to get workers more than families. Low density residential have more families, which can help smooth out population aging and dying cycles. (at least according to some...)

The commercial zones should have connections to industrial zones and the outside world. Having a system of 6-lane / 4-lane / 2-lane roads to help funnel traffic from the highway system to the commercial zones is a good thing. The 6-lane roads are best if there are few interruptions, maybe one every 40 squares or so. There are tutorials on traffic and roads that will go into more detail.

Offices do best with a well-educated population, so maybe building that university first would be good, then follow up with office zones.

I've only seen residential complain about pollution, but I like to keep my industrial zone at arm's length from other zones because it looks prettier that way. :)

As for grids vs non-grids, I have done both. Grids are excellent for large buildings, downtown canyons, and specialty areas where you want things to be dense and packed. Free-hand roads are very fun for running ribbons through hilly areas with sparse population and for creating wonderful greenbelts that arc through the city.

I learned how to make a big city using grids, but I loved the sections of those cities where the grid was disrupted and I started to follow a shoreline or hill slope. I graduated to where I mix the two in my towns and have very pleasing results. I like to also mix in zones, which can lend character to your cities. If I go with a zone that has a ban on high-rise buildings, that is a prime area for placing workshop assets that would be lost in a sea of skyscrapers, such as those lovely cathedrals and museums.
 

ristosal

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No, you're wrong. You're completely ignoring the potential of future growth and replacing those blocks with high-density zones. The traffic will collapse under a gridlock of narrow two-lane roads.
You're clearly not even trying to understand what I'm saying. No, it's not some holy rule to replace those exact buildings with high density; and no, you don't have to plan so that tons of traffic goes through that area and causes a gridlock. There's a well known traffic guide that has made basically the exact same grid, and it works because through traffic is kept away from there. Heck, it's high density to top off!
 

SchwarzKatze

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Ask yourself: Is there a downside to spacing out your districts?
Yes. To name a few:
- Inefficient service coverage
- Longer travel time
- Wasted unzoned space
 

Glitcher

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You're clearly not even trying to understand what I'm saying. No, it's not some holy rule to replace those exact buildings with high density; and no, you don't have to plan so that tons of traffic goes through that area and causes a gridlock. There's a well known traffic guide that has made basically the exact same grid, and it works because through traffic is kept away from there. Heck, it's high density to top off!

And you're not even listening to what I'm saying. Rezoning blocks as high density is always an option and one that I've seen in every LP of Cities: Skylines. This is why I said you should plan your city for future development, not just wipe your hands and shift development to a different area. Besides, the last time I checked, the game decides the flow of traffic, not you. If the player uses a uniform grid layout then traffic will be equally uniform and difficult to manage. This is why you should create a hierarchical road layout and not rely solely on grids.

Yes. To name a few:
- Inefficient service coverage
- Longer travel time
- Wasted unzoned space

- The benefits of spacing out development vastly outweighs the drawbacks of stretching service coverage. Besides, service vehicles can still drive all over the map to reach a destination.
- Since when does travel time even matter to a Cim? I'd love for you to show me a screenshot where a Cim complained about taking too long to get to work. Anyway, using small highways between developed areas speeds up travel.
- Even heard of "Parklife"? Maybe you should download it.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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I'm not against spreading things out, but:

I'd love for you to show me a screenshot where a Cim complained about taking too long to get to work.

One way they complain is to hop in a car and create road traffic instead of walking.


(Not my video)
 

Silvayr

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Sorry i forgot to check the forums because everything was going fine until this morning but now my city is a disaster. I destroyed the roads and made it bigger, changed the cities name like that was going to help somehow... I got rid of industry and low density areas, i shouldn't have done that. Now my city is a mess.

Dear God, that is the UGLIEST city I've ever seen! :eek: You are obsessed with grids! The road layout just looks like the same identical square pattern repeated for all eternity. It's actually hilarious that you stopped the grid right at the city limits instead of buying a new tile and expanding further.

If you found that ugly when you see this you are gonna have a heart attack... :p

20180919181047_1.jpg


Okay, you're obviously a rookie at city-building, so let me give you my first advice: START AGAIN! This city is a write-off because the infrastructure is a clogged network of squares with no room for expansion. What happens if you want to run a train line through your city? You can't! You didn't leave any space left. Look, here are a three cardinal rules to help you start afresh on a new city.

Yes i am a rookie, this was my first serious attempt to build one. Bu i must disagree i figured i can run a train through all city like this :)
20180919181651_1.jpg


But i must say my transportation is a mess...

20180919181846_1.jpg


RULE #3: Get a better map! It's hard to tell from one screenshot, but I'm guessing the map you're playing on is as flat as Holland. That's probably not a good idea as it contributes to you falling into a grid pattern without terrain features to hinder you. Look on the Steam workshop and download a map that has a diverse and rugged landscape: Mountain ranges, deep valleys, winding rivers, vast deltas, perilous cliffs, etc.

It is called Sandy Beach, i kinda like it. I would like to try all the maps that game offers before downloading new maps.

Use medium or large roads where you anticipate larger traffic flow (something that's impossible to do in a homogeneous grid layout).

I went with 6 lane roads
20180919182528_1.jpg


My traffic was kinda alright until recently but now everything is falling apart.

20180919182635_1.jpg


Death everywhere, eventhough i have deathcare available everywhere.

20180919183230_1.jpg


Shops don't have goods to sell... and i can't be bothered with the ruins because new ones appear as soon as i destroy them.
 

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Silvayr

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My first tip would be to buy a couple tiles of land so that you can get a second highway interchange in to the northeast of that industrial area. This will spread the load of incoming and outgoing industrial traffic. Then proceed to change the tight grid pattern so that wider roads have less intersections at industrial and commercial zones.
I will start a new city and will keep that in mind thanks.
 

Meesmoth

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If you wanna create grid cities, then I suggest play SimCity 4 instead. There you are only limited to building grids. This game is completely different from SC4, so grid cities are not good on this game.
 

Silvayr

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High density can supplement low density areas. In residential, they tend to get workers more than families. Low density residential have more families, which can help smooth out population aging and dying cycles. (at least according to some...)

The commercial zones should have connections to industrial zones and the outside world. Having a system of 6-lane / 4-lane / 2-lane roads to help funnel traffic from the highway system to the commercial zones is a good thing. The 6-lane roads are best if there are few interruptions, maybe one every 40 squares or so. There are tutorials on traffic and roads that will go into more detail.
Thank you for your advice, next time i will keep both of them.
 

Silvayr

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If you wanna create grid cities, then I suggest play SimCity 4 instead. There you are only limited to building grids. This game is completely different from SC4, so grid cities are not good on this game.
The reason i did them like that is i am a bit uncreative... I hope it will get better as i get to do more and more cities.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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Many of the problems in the game (noise, pollution, etc) can (almost) never be completely eliminated. The trick is to mitigate and layout things to minimize the problems.

Should be obvious that residential should not be built immediately adjacent to heavy industry. Commercial, especially high density is also quite noisy.

i have a noise problem, a lot of noise

A buffer of quiet things between commercial and residential also helps. Office buildings are generally quiet and tolerate the commercial noise more so than residential.

Streets with trees reduce noise. Highways with sound barriers have less noise than those without.

Death everywhere, eventhough i have deathcare available everywhere.

Sometimes it is a death wave. There are a few theories on how to reduce them. Do a search.

If you have sufficient deathcare facilities, sometimes they can still be stuck in traffic.
 

Fox_NS_CAN

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The reason i did them like that is i am a bit uncreative... I hope it will get better as i get to do more and more cities.

It takes some time to figure out. Most people here are helpful if you are really stuck.

As you build more cities you will (probably) get better at it. Even as a single city grows, you may find the newer parts are better than the older parts.