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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
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Erik W

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While Vandal establishment was zealous in the persecution of Nicenes, there is still no evidence of mass conversion from Nicenes to Arianism. It is more likely that the Vandals would have been overthrow by their subjects or a Romano-berber invasion from the interior.
Perhaps not mass conversion, but still, 2 out of 6 Vandal kings persecuted Catholics, 5 of them were Arians. When Thrasamund stopped the persecutions, he pretty much stopped them for good. And even if there were no persecutions, the kings still encouraged Arians while tolerating Catholics. I think that by the time Justinian steams in, North Africa should actually be relatively Arian (atleast the Vandal part of it)
 

BSggg

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Talking about Berbers maybe there could be little events about Berber Or Tuareg raids from the deserts? Or even a Invasion of a united Tuareg empire like the Sunset Invasion (but with way less troops ofcourse). I know there are allready Berber Kingdoms in Mauretania but those where Berbers who stayed in the Land under Roman rule and when the WRE collapsed many Berbers returned from the Atlas Mountains ad the Desert. If you are not planning to expand the map into Africa this could be a way to bring a little more flavour to North Africa. Maybe also some Events regarding theyre Culture and the West African Paganism.
 

ekorovin

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Edit: Speaking of North Africa, how will the desertification of North Africa be represented? Some say it was due to climate change, other say it was due to the Arab invasion.
I'd say, leave it be. If we start modelling climate change in one place, we'll need to model it all over the world.
And that will take years of research, during which the team will be driven mad, start sacrificing each other to the Dark Gods of Climate Change. After ten years of madness and slaughter and coding Enlil would publish the mod, and everyone who'll play it will lost hes/her mind. Cities will be filled with wailing crazed cannibals, and civilization will end. By that time, due to ice shields melting, the sea will bury all remnants of once proud species.
 

flyguy117

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And that will take years of research, during which the team will be driven mad, start sacrificing each other to the Dark Gods of Climate Change. After ten years of madness and slaughter and coding Enlil would publish the mod, and everyone who'll play it will lost hes/her mind. Cities will be filled with wailing crazed cannibals, and civilization will end. By that time, due to ice shields melting, the sea will bury all remnants of once proud species.
and the world stopped making sense. :p
 

Erik W

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I'd say, leave it be. If we start modelling climate change in one place, we'll need to model it all over the world.
And that will take years of research, during which the team will be driven mad, start sacrificing each other to the Dark Gods of Climate Change. After ten years of madness and slaughter and coding Enlil would publish the mod, and everyone who'll play it will lost hes/her mind. Cities will be filled with wailing crazed cannibals, and civilization will end. By that time, due to ice shields melting, the sea will bury all remnants of once proud species.
and the world stopped making sense. :p
Until the Klingons invaded...

But anyway, I´ve never felt that the climate has been a vital part of neither EU, HOI or CK. In Victoria, perhaps a little more. Anyway I don´t think we should tamper with the climate and break the game.
 
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loup99

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Until the Klingons invaded...

But anyway, I´ve never felt that the climate has been a vital part of neither EU, HOI or CK. In Victoria, perhaps a little more. Anyway I don´t think we should tamper with the climate and break the game.
Also the climate zones made by chatnoir attempted to take care of that, but they are very performance hungry and would be, though a good flavour addition not worth it.
 

Enlil

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Unrelated: Enlil, did you got my Slavic name list?
Maybe it is, but this is probably also good for the dejure situation. Enlil did you get my PM?
I'd resend them, I don't remember getting them.

I'd say, leave it be. If we start modelling climate change in one place, we'll need to model it all over the world.
And that will take years of research, during which the team will be driven mad, start sacrificing each other to the Dark Gods of Climate Change. After ten years of madness and slaughter and coding Enlil would publish the mod, and everyone who'll play it will lost hes/her mind. Cities will be filled with wailing crazed cannibals, and civilization will end. By that time, due to ice shields melting, the sea will bury all remnants of once proud species.
My master plan!
 

KingdomofWales

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Although it may be too late to institute this, I just completed a series of studies into Ostrogothic Italy that very effectively and conclusively demonstrated that during his reign Theodoric the Great presented himself as and was accepted as a Roman 'princeps' model of emperor by all of his Romano-Italian subjects, the Gallo-Romans and Romano-Illyrians he brought back into the Western Empire with seperate conquests, AND the Eastern Imperial court, which addressed him as such in official correspondance (prior to the ascension of Justinian) and referred to his empire as an equal partner in the Roman Imperial world - one of two 'republics' in a world surrounded by barbarian-ruled Kingdoms. Theodoric and his Romano-Goths (most of whom had been Romanized well in advance of their movement into the Balkans and later Italy, and many of whom had served as a supplement to Constantinople's local field armies for a generation or more) were not considered 'barbarians' by either Romans of the West or Romans of the East until well after the deaths of Theodoric, his grandson and heir, and his daughter. Theodoric ruled as a Roman princeps in word and deed, and Italo-Roman authors frequently compared him to Trajan, Valentinian, and even Julius Caesar (during his reconquest of Provence.) Although the Emepror Anastasius saw Theodoric as a dangerous rival and worked in tandem with the Franks to try and blunt Western Roman Influence, he never stopped referring to Theodoric as a Roman emperor who ruled over Romans - legitimately. Justin followed suit, and even during the early part of his reign Justinian and Amalsuntha, regent of the Western Empire, worked together to effect the reconquest of Africa, with Amalasuntha eagerly supplying Sicilian bases for Eastern Roman troops.

Moreover, the texts I've studied and the very very new scholarly accounts that are challenging old traditions about the barbarity of Theodoric and his supposed 'Gothic Kingdom' made it clear that Theodoric's Roman administration had a far greater level of control over Hispania (in the wake of the Battle of Voulle and the effective end of Visigothic dominance in Southern Gaul) than is usually credited to them: for example, Theodoric was able to order grain shipments for Italy from Spain, and to defeat a Visigothic rival for hegemony over Hispania. This dominance didn't last too long, but its minimization in the later historical accounts comes from a teleological place that looks at what eventually happenned and deeming it a foregone conclusion from the start, but that's not actually how history works: there was a very real chance for a while - when Eutharic the Hispano-Roman 'Visigoth' was chosen by Theodoric to succeed him as Western Emperor and had his succession recognized by the Eastern Emperor, Justin, who even adopted the young man as his son-at-arms - that Theodoric's reinvigorated Western Roman Empire (which is what it was referred to in its day by both inhabitants, officials, friends, allies, rivals, and enemies) was going to hold on to not just Italy, Provence, Illyria, the Cisalpine provinces, the Western Roman provinces up to the Danube, and Sicily but also Hispania. This was commonly referred to as the theoretical 'Gothic Superstate' by 20th century Late Antique Historians, who credit Anastasius (and Clovis) for trying to head this off at the pass, but those terms - 'Gothic Superstate' - are not reflective of how anyone living in or outside of the Western Empire during the Amal Dynasty viewed reality. The Visigoths were considered to be true 'barbarians,' it is true (however unfairly: the Visigoths had been Romanized a century or more before), but Eutharic, their 'king' and heir to Theodoric's imperial title, claimed to be of a lesser branch of the Amal Dynasty, and was viewed as Roman within Italy during his residence there (because the Amal Dynasty had established its Roman credentials thoroughly), and was accepted as such by the Eastern Emperor. It was supposed that just as Theodoric's Romano-Italian administration had re-Romanised the southern Gallic provinces in the wake of their 'reconquest' by the Western Empire, and as his Gothic troops had come to be seen as Roman soldiery by the people of both Eastern and Western Empires, that in time Theodoric and his heirs would convert the Visigoths into Roman soldiery of the Western Empire's Hispanic provinces.

There's even a suggestion (per Peter Heather, who usually I credit with a bit more credibility than I do on this score) that Theodoric during his hale years exercised a sort of hegemonic administrative control over Vandal-controlled Romano-African territories as well. That Theodoric exercised a sort of elder-statesman's level of influence in Spain in the wake of marrying his sister to the Vandal king is not questioned, but Heather seems to think that the five thousand or so Romano-Gothic troops sent to North Africa constituted something of an occupying garrison, bringing the Vandals in under Roman control again as something of a client kingdom. This is something I would need to pursue with more research before I can weigh in on it, but it may bear considering at least.

When Justin died, Justinian began laying the groundwork for an 'Imperial Reconquest' of the West. To do this, he had to make a case that the West NEEDED reconquering. Vandal Africa was an easy sell - the pro-Constantinopolitan king Hilderic had thrown off Western-Roman dominance by turning to the Eastern Empire, but his own overthrow a few years later by a usurper who was not recognized by either Imperial court made the Vandals vulnerable to accusations of illegitimacy. Italy was a tougher nut to crack, however. Amalasuntha had been married to Eutharic, who was recognized as a legitimate heir to the Western Empire by the Emperor Justin and by Justinian. He was even made consul (!) and his son, in whose name Amalasuntha was originally ruling, was seen as equally legitimate. When, however, Athalaric died and Amalasuntha married, and then was deposed, by an unrecognized relative, the East took the usurpation as a pretext for invasion and 'restoration.' But recreating the Goths and Theodoric's regime as 'barbarian' in nature required a significant of historical white-washing (and in this, Jordanne's rewrite of Cassiodorus' Gothic History may have had a hand), which was done after the fact of the invasion and initial Western Imperial surrender at Ravenna, not before.

Why bother bringing this up? It all worked out the way we know it today, right? The Eastern Romans eventually reconquered Italy (only to Lose most of it again), the Franks proved to be the unstoppable foe in Gaul, and Hispania remembered her Late Antique rulers as 'Visigoths', not 'Romans' or 'Romano-Goths.' True. But for a couple of decades between the 500s and the 530s, it looked to a generation as though Theodoric had firmly reestablished a version of the 'Western Roman Empire' that could deserve the name - and not just the Empire part, but the 'Roman' part. It was also a different, earlier sort of Imperial regime, one modeled self-conciously on the principate model, which allowed the Italo-Roman, Gallo-Roman, Romano-Illyrian, and Hispano-Roman elites to buy into the system, as Theodoric's Roman senate served something more than the purely ceremonial role than it typically did under the dominate. 30 or so years might sound like nothing when you're looking at Roman history in big chunky blocks ("Republican Era," "Early Imperial/Principate," "Crisis of the Third Century," "Late Imperial/Dominate," "Post-Imperial Roman West") but one of the advantages of a game like this is that we have the opportunity to live through those years in which it looked like the Emperor Theodoric had reconstituted a successful, working version of the Western Roman Empire. Certainly it worked while he was alive, and though it didn't really out live his grandson and his daughter, it very well could have: if Eutharic or Athalaric had lived, if the Acacian schism had taken a few decades longer to unravel, if Theodehad had not deposed Amalasuntha, if Belisarius had been a stitch less loyal to Justinian, the sixth century could have wound up being the story of how the Western Roman Empire re-established itself after a couple of decades of near-collapse. And that's the kind of special event series that would be fun to play through.
 
Last edited:

richvh

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Oh yeah, where should I place Ambrosius
One of the more Romanized provinces in Britain. Somerset might be appropriate, (location of Cadbury Castle, Iron Age hill fort rebuilt in this era, possible location of Camelot.)
 

YouMust99

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I don´t know about the "you can´t get re-elected" thing, but I agree THAT WE HAVE TO INCLUDE THE SENATE IN THE FIRST RELEASE! It would just be so weird if Rome was held by Odoacer or some random vassal of his, not to mention non-historical. And the Republican Houses should represent the old Roman families
Most of the old roman families by this time were long dead, purges by emperors like the severens wiped them out, allowing emperors to stick loyal provincials on the senate who had no connections to the old roman house and didn't make claims to.
 

loup99

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Erik W

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Firstly, sorry for not showing all your text, just thought I´d save some space.

Second, I would never have imagined how Roman Theoderic was and I think we very much need to simulate this properly in the game. Here is my suggestion:

493 AD. Theoderic, a Romano-Gothic (or perhaps even Roman?) king of the Ostrogoths invades Italy (war lasting from 488 to 493), kills Odoacer and restores the Western Empire, ruling over Italy, Pannonia, Dalmatia and Raetia-Noricum.

The WRE should last between 493 and 534 AD, seeing the 33 year rule of Theoderic and the 8 year rule of his grandson Athalaric (Romano-Gothic).

After that, the WRE is replaced by the Ostrogothic kingdom, ruled by the Gothic Theodahad and it lasts until 552, when Totila is killed in battle against the Byzantines (a war that begins in 535)
 

Zusk

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Firstly, sorry for not showing all your text, just thought I´d save some space.

Second, I would never have imagined how Roman Theoderic was and I think we very much need to simulate this properly in the game. Here is my suggestion:

493 AD. Theoderic, a Romano-Gothic (or perhaps even Roman?) king of the Ostrogoths invades Italy (war lasting from 488 to 493), kills Odoacer and restores the Western Empire, ruling over Italy, Pannonia, Dalmatia and Raetia-Noricum.

The WRE should last between 493 and 534 AD, seeing the 33 year rule of Theoderic and the 8 year rule of his grandson Athalaric (Romano-Gothic).

After that, the WRE is replaced by the Ostrogothic kingdom, ruled by the Gothic Theodahad and it lasts until 552, when Totila is killed in battle against the Byzantines (a war that begins in 535)
Currently in the mod there is already a "Roman Nostalgia" trait, perhaps he could simply have that trait with the 'chance' of forming the WRE?

Having him form the WRE empire every time would be like having the Magyars form Carpathia every game instead of Hungary.
 

KingdomofWales

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That sounds pretty good. What if someone wants to play as an Romano-Goth, though? Can we set up a couple of events whereby they can indulge in a similar career path to Theodorics? For example, if I were to create-a-character who was a Romano-Goth when the game starts, is there a way where I could:

Start in Pannonia II with 10,000 Romano-Gothic Event Troops (mixture of heavy infantry and light infantry/pikemen) and control over one county, while also being at war with the Eastern Roman Empire for a claim on Singidunum (or whatever territory approximates that in this game.) Similar to the way William the Conqueror starts in the Vanilla CK II game.

Events you can pursue follow:

Be Named Magister Militum of the Eastern Roman Empire (Conferring a hefty prestige bonus and a modest income)
Text: Some fancy version of explaning that your character, as a stand in for Theodoric, threatened the Eastern Empire with further war and sacking of cities unless you recieved an official Roman title and payroll for you and your army.
Requiring:
- Must Hold One Duke-level title within the Balkan territory of the Empire
AND
- Must Be Romano-Goth

And then if you acquire 'Magister Militum' you could move on to: "Be Named Consul of the Eastern Roman Empire" (Conferring an even larger prestige bonus and salary.)
Flavor Text about offering to make yourself useful to the sitting Emperor in case of a succession crisis.
Requirements:
- Must Hold one Duke-Level Title Within the Balkan territory of the Eastern Roman Empire
AND
- Must Already Be Named 'Magister Militum'
AND
- Must Defeat Theodoric Strabo's Ostrogoths (which in this scenario should control a duchy-level estate in or around Thrace - hence their nickname 'Thracian Goths'. Defeating these Goths should also come with an increase in manpower to 20,000 total event troops.)

And then if you get named Consul, recieve an event that says something along the lines of 'Having eliminated all his other rivals for power in Constantinople, the Eastern Roman Emperor now looks to rid himself of Theodoric's troubling Ostrogoths.' With options to A) 'Accept the Eastern Roman Emperor's sponsorship for an invasion of Italy, in order to wrest it from the usurper Odovacer and hold it as a Roman ruler.' or B) Do nothing, which leaves you stranded in the middle of the Eastern Empire with troops you'll need to disband and puts you in a state of war with the Eastern Roman Empire.

If you 'Accept the Eastern Roman Emperor's sponsorship for an Invasion of Italy,' you get put in a state of war with Odovacer. If you defeat Odovacer, you should then become the ruler 'king' of all Italy and Sicily, gain a treasury of 1000, with further events:

Immediately after becoming the 'king' of Italy, you recieve an embassy from Epiphanius (a holy man of northern Italy at the time) who begs for your assistance in rebuilding the war-devastated northern Italian provinces. If you accept, you lose your entire treasury, but get +20 to all Roman or Romano-Italian characters' opinions of you. You should also acquire Epiphanius (a 20 Diplomacy, 5 Martial, 7 Stewardship, 8 Intrigue, 20 Learning character). If you refuse, you keep your treasury, but lose -20 to all Roman or Romano-Italian opinions, and don't get Epiphanius.

Some flavor event decisions you could make as ruler of Italy would then be:

A) Bring back the captives of Liguria (northern Italy) from the Burgundians. (Requires State Diplomacy of 25 or better, Prestige of 1000 or better, 200 gold). Gain +10 to Romano-Italian/Roman Opinion.
B) Remit 2/3rds of the taxes of the citizens of Liguria for 1 year (northern Italy) (-2.0 (or some other penalizing amount, however much income Italy gets you at the start of the game)
C) Settle Your Soldiers on Roman Land: Allows you to recruit the noble Liberius, who is 10/5/25/5/10. Gives you a 'Mercenary' unit (is this possible?) of 5000 Romano-Gothic soldiers, who cost very little to maintain and who can be maintained all the time. Might actually be good to have a few of these Mercenary bands. They could also be 'Holy Orders' who (is this possible?) cost you prestige to raise instead of piety?
C) Convert to 'Roman' culture - converts Theodoric and his immediate family and retainers of 'Romano-Gothic' culture to 'Roman' culture or 'Italo-Roman' culture, costs you -20 opinion from all pagan characters, +5 from all Christian (and thus Roman, to one extent or another) characters.
D) Create a Roman administration: Grants you the noble Cassiodorus as a character you can recruit for your court: (12/5/12/10/15) and his son, the famous Cassiodorus of the Variae and the Gothic History, who is (20/5/20/5/20). Gives you +10 bonus to Italo-Roman/Roman opinion, costs you a percentage of your monthly income.
E) Restore Roman Monumental Architecture (a major component of Theodoric's success), costs you a portion of your monthly income, gives you an on-going bonus to Roman/Romano-Italian opinion.
F) Visit Rome and Recieve the Senate's Acclaim: Confers upon you the title of Princeps (with a hefty prestige and income modifier), converts your Italian kingdom into 'The Western Roman Empire,' and allows you recruit Senators into your administration. This should require every existing Senator to have an opinion of you which is at least 75 or better, and for your character to be Roman/Romano-Italian.
G) Host Spectacles in Rome: A -200 gold event that gives you +15 Roman/Romano-Italian opinion for 2 years, useful just before you ask the Senate to recognize you as Princeps. Could replace the "Host a Grand Tournament Event"
H) Restore Roman Trade Abroad: A -500 prestige event that increases your income by a large amount every month for about 10 years at a time, while also granting you +5 Roman/Romano-Italian opinion.

Later Events could be time-triggered, or event triggered:

G) In 504, you could recieve an event offering you the chance to take back all of the Western Roman Empire's traditional provinces in Illyricum, and recieve a casus belli on it all. Accepting will piss the Eastern Roman Emperors off, and the whole Eastern Empire, as will winning the war, but success will give you a +10 opinion modifier in Italy and in Illyricum, and two more 'Mercenary Armies' of low-cost (or Retinues) Roman troops from Illyricum.

F) In 507 (the year of the historic Battle of Vouille in which the Visigothic Kingdom lost most of its Italian Holdings) or whenever the Franks go to war with the Visigoths after you become princeps of the Western Roman Empire, you could recieve an event that offers you the chance to restore Roman control to southern Gaul (Provence), and gives you a claim on all the territories of Provence, as well as a claim on the Visigothic throne. If you accept the event, you get major negative opinion points with the Burgundians and the Franks and the Eastern Roman Empire. If you win the war(s) and reclaim Provence, you should recieve new events:

1] Restore Roman Administration in Gaul (Costs -200 gold, you lose the character of Liberius, who becomes Prefect of Gaul - or someone does anyway - a King Level Title under your Emperor Title) with claims to the rest of Gaul, Spain, and Britannia, and which can only be held by a Gallo-Roman, Romano-Goth, Roman, or Romano-Italian. Since none of the Frankish or Burgundian rulers are likely to be 'Gallo-Roman' in 510 or so, it's unlikely this title will be usurped before it can expand, but if it does, them's the breaks.

2]Deploy a Roman Army in Gaul (Costs a hefty percentage of monthly income, but gives you +10 to Romano-Gallic opinion, and gives you another Mercenary army of Romano-Goths)

3]Reintroduce Gallo-Romans to the Senate of Rome (-1000 to prestige, but +5 to Roman or Romano-Italian opinion and plus +15 to Gallo-Roman.)

4]Recover Gallo-Roman prisoners from Burgundians. Gives you a Casus Belli on the Burgundians, allowing you to add some territory to the empire. If you win, you get the territory, plus +10 to Roman, Romano-Italian, Gallo-Roman Opinion.


As for the Visigoths...
Accepting the event for the battle of Vouille should give you a claim on the Visigothic Throne. Now, that could be tricky. The current King is not going to want to surrender his independence. Historically, the King died in battle with no legitimate successor and Theodoric outmanuevered/defeated a rival in order to claim the Visigothic realm for the empire. I don't know how that could work in game, but I suppose you could just have an all out war with the Visigoths with conditions that if you lose, you take a MAJOR prestige and Roman/Roman-Gothic/Gallo-Roman/Italo-Roman opinion hit (like, -30 or -40, even -50 ... a Roman Emperor is supposed to defeat Barbarians, not the other way around) and lose your claim, but if you win, you get the throne and control over the Kingdom, but at a -20 Romano-Visigoth opinion hit, while a +10 Hispano-Roman opinion bonus?

As for the Vandals: perhaps there should be one event, in the late 490s, or early 500s, in which you can marry your sister to the Vandal King, or his heir. If you accept, you get a -10 opinion modifier among Vandals, but +10 to Romano-Africans, AND you get a +5 Romano-Italian/Roman opinion boost along with a minor income boost due to increased African trade and provisioning of elephants for the games.


The Long Haul::

So getting the Western Roman Empire back doesn't turn out to be so hard: you've got a powerful army, the Romans respect you as a Roman princeps, you win battles, everything is good. But after 511, it should become increasingly hard to hold onto things.

For one: There are still Romans living under Barbarian rule. After 511, if you aren't at war with Barbarians for over a year you start getting opinion minuses from your subjects. If you lose a war, you get a major opinion hit.

Two: The Acacian Schism should start making your subjects really annoyed at you after 511, with an increasing opinion negative for years after 511 that don't resolve the schism (say -5 for the first year, -10 for the second, negative -20 for the third...) If you 'Help Resolve the Acacian Schism' you get a +10 opinion modifier from all Roman/Gallo-Roman, Hispano-Roman, Italo-Roman subjects until 519, when the Schism is finally resolved. After the resolution of the schism, unfortunately, your subjects get a +10 to their opinion of the Eastern Roman Empire and a -10 to their opinion of you based on religious differences (in addition to their native religious difference dislike of you.)

Three: To Resolve this Issue, You should, after 519, have an option to convert to Chalcedonian/Apostolic/Orthodox/Catholic (whatever we're calling it) Christianity. If you do, you get a +10 to opinion from the Eastern Roman Emperor, and +20 from your subjects, BUT, you also spawn an Event Pretender to your throne, a Romano-Goth named Theodahad, who has a claim on all your titles. If he beats you, you are deposed and he becomes 'king' of the Kingdom of Italy. If you beat him, you get a -20 to Romano-Gothic opinion for the rest of your reign, but hold onto your throne and Imperial title.

Four: Succession. The Western Roman Empire should have an Elective Succession system. But, for your first succession, you should need to get the approval of the Senate, the Visigoths, and the Eastern Roman Emperor. This event could cost you -2000 prestige and a hefty chunk of cash (to grease the wheels). If you get the approval, your chosen heir gets a +20 opinion modifier from all three groups for 25 years. If you don't get the approval, then on your death your heir has a -20 opinion modifier from all three groups. Placating the Senate will be easy (just repeat the 'Visit Rome and Gain Senatorial Acclaim' Event), but the Eastern Roman Empire will also get a claim on all of your titles (except the Visigothic Throne), and your death will spawn a Visigothic Event Pretender who will try to win a war to retake the throne of Spain.

Five: Longevity (Visigoths) in order to hold on to your empire, you need to eventually do something to integrate the Visigoths and Hispano-Romans back into your empire. Theodoric never got to do this, and so his empire collapsed after his daughter's death, but in order to hold onto Spain in the game, your successors (and it will need to be a successor) should have to do a series of events to retain Roman rule in Spain. 1) Your successor should be a Romano-Visigoth of (your) the Amal Dynasty. Eutharic should be a good choice, but anyone of your dynasty who is Visigothic will gain a +20 bonus to all Visigothic opinion. 2) They should convert to 'Roman culture' shortly after their succession to avoid opinion negatives with Senators and the Eastern Romans. 3) To avoid spawning rebels in Hispania, they should institute 'Romanizing Reforms in Hispania' as soon as possible. These reforms could cost a hefty chunk of prestige and cash, but come with a large opinion bonus. After doing this, there should no longer be an opinion negative for you or your heirs not being of Visigothic-Roman culture. (If that's even possible.) 4) Re-establish Pan-Mediterranean Trade. This should come with opinion bonuses for all of your subjects. 5) Support a Roman Army in Hispania. This should cost a chunk of cash and a lot of prestige, but come with an opinion bonus for residents of Spain. 5) Restore Roman Monumental Architecture in Hispania. Another costly event that gives an opinion bonus.

This sort of event sequence should also be applied to Vandal North Africa and to Northern Gaul and Britannia if you ever wind up recovering those provinces.

Other problems an Amal-dynasty Western Roman Empire could run into are...

A) Justinian's reconquests. Justinian is going to find some way to legitimize his invasions of the West. Even if you are still the Western Roman Empire, you should have to fend off Belisarius at some point during the 530s. If you win (which will be tough, as Belisarius should come as a 20/30/15/5/10 or something super-general with special event troops, but doable) Justinian loses all claims to the Western Empire. If you lose, you lose your Italian holdings and your Western Imperial title. (If you conquered North Africa prior to Eastern Roman Invasion in the early 530s, you will also have to fend off Belisarius there, and if you win Justinian loses his claim to North Africa. The same goes for Hispania in the 540s.)

B) The Justinianic Plague. When it hits, it should be completely devastating. BUT, before it hits, there should be an event talking about a 'Sun-Shroud' that lasts for 18 months, causes severe winters for up to a decade, and famine. Your people should have a -10 opinion modifier throughout the climate events and the Plague.

C) Frankish Invasion. If you manage to survive the 530s with your Western Empire more or less intact, you should have to face down the grandsons of Clovis sooner or later, along with their Eastern Roman allies.

D) Lombard, Avar, Bulgar, and Slavic Invasions throughout the 560s.

E) Maintaining the respect and friendship (tenuously) of the Eastern Roman Empire. This is a pickle. We never saw this play out long term in history, but given that by 519 Theodoric and Justin were ruling two SEPERATE Empires of Romans rather than just two halves of the same Empire as had been the case during the Theodosian dynasty, if your empire survives Belisarius and the 530s intact, eventually you're probably going to have to throw down with the Eastern Romans to control both halves of the Empire, or watch the East be devoured by the Persians and later Arabs while Slavs, Bulgars, Lombards, and Franks keep gobbling at you in the West. To that end, whenever the Eastern Roman Emperor dies without a direct male heir, you should get a claim on the title, and winning that war should give you control of the Balkans and Thrace, and claims to Asia Minor, Syria, Palestine, and Egypt. If you lose, you lose your claims to the Eastern Empire for a generation. BUT, before you wind up having this war, you should have the option to do a couple of events to keep Roman relationships cool: A) Jointly Name Consuls for the Year with the Eastern Roman Emperor. A -100 prestige hit that gives you +10 Eastern Roman Emperor opinion for a year. B)Request Eastern Roman Imperial approval of your successor. A -1000 prestige hit that confers a +30 bump to Eastern Roman Imperial opinion of your successor for 10 years. C) Diplomatic mission to Constantinople. A -200 cash hit that comes with a +10 opinion bump that is on-going for 5 years. You can also pursue traditional marriage alliances and stuff.

ANYWAY. I write too much. I don't know how much of this is even possible, or if there's anyone out there crazy enough to mod all this stuff. If I had any skills with modding, I would do it myself, but my two attempts to create a mod have been badly botched failures. I'm just throwing this out there as an idea for other people to pursue if you have time and interest. :)

Also, if there's a way to hide this text behind a cut, PLEASE TELL ME. I looked and didn't see a way, and I don't often post here.
 

Joemit

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Firstly, sorry for not showing all your text, just thought I´d save some space.

Second, I would never have imagined how Roman Theoderic was and I think we very much need to simulate this properly in the game. Here is my suggestion:

493 AD. Theoderic, a Romano-Gothic (or perhaps even Roman?) king of the Ostrogoths invades Italy (war lasting from 488 to 493), kills Odoacer and restores the Western Empire, ruling over Italy, Pannonia, Dalmatia and Raetia-Noricum.

The WRE should last between 493 and 534 AD, seeing the 33 year rule of Theoderic and the 8 year rule of his grandson Athalaric (Romano-Gothic).

After that, the WRE is replaced by the Ostrogothic kingdom, ruled by the Gothic Theodahad and it lasts until 552, when Totila is killed in battle against the Byzantines (a war that begins in 535)
I dunno, making Theodoric an Emperor shouldn't be so easy, especially since this would mean that most of the time the WRE would last for centuries.
 
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KingdomofWales

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Well the thing is that it was pretty easy, for him, to do it. It was holding onto it that turned out to be difficult. The Romans of Italy probably would have taken anyone who acted suitably Roman, had an army, and could win battles at this point: For them, it was Theodoric, or rule by a Barbarian who made no pretense at maintaining the fiction that Rome was the center of a glorious empire. But getting into power and holding on to it were two different animals.
 

Erik W

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Currently in the mod there is already a "Roman Nostalgia" trait, perhaps he could simply have that trait with the 'chance' of forming the WRE?

Having him form the WRE empire every time would be like having the Magyars form Carpathia every game instead of Hungary.
What´s wrong with the Magyars forming Carpathia? Why should they form Hungary in every game? Modern nations should not be the predetermined product for "settling Barbarians". And Im not saying that Theoderic should restore the WRE every time he invades Italy, just that he does it historically, so that you can play as the resurrected WRE from 493 to 534. The decision to restore the WRE should be available to any Roman, Romano-Barbarian and Greek (culture group?) ruler.

I dunno, making Theodoric an Emperor shouldn't be so easy, especially since this would mean that most of the time the WRE would last for centuries.
Not if you start at 480 or any non "493-534" startdate. Then Italy is ruled by barbarians (except of course for the Byzantines) until the Franks create the HRE. And what is so bad with having a Romano-Barbarian WRE to last a little?
 
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