When the World Stopped Making Sense [ A 480 Migrational Period Mod]

[Joemit]

Have you tried giving barbarian titles primary = yes so that they must have their barbarian title first or making titles like Tarraconensis or Germania Minor unable to be ruled by barbarians, seeing as they were only really Roman titles and a Frank or a Visigoth wouldn't take them as their main title?

 

[Zusk]

Have you tried giving barbarian titles primary = yes so that they must have their barbarian title first or making titles like Tarraconensis or Germania Minor unable to be ruled by barbarians, seeing as they were only really Roman titles and a Frank or a Visigoth wouldn't take them as their main title?

It would be a bit frustrating to bit lame not to be able to advance past your primary title a a Barbarian nation, no?

For example, the Visigoths couldn't make a Empire title, the duchy of Burgundy couldn't make a Kingdom title etc.

 

[Frednutts]

Can we change 'Byzantine Empire' to 'Empire of the Romans' or '(Eastern) Roman Empire' please?
The word Byzantine is a modern invention, back then they were still known as the Romans despite speaking Greek.

 

[Zusk]

Can we change 'Byzantine Empire' to 'Empire of the Romans' or '(Eastern) Roman Empire' please?
The word Byzantine is a modern invention, back then they were still known as the Romans despite speaking Greek.

You could always just call them the "Roman Empire", If they considered themselves Romans we should as well.

Its possible to rename the Eastern Roman Empire into the Roman Empire if the Western Empire falls and the Western Roman Empire into the Roman Empire if the east falls.

The only issue with this is that the point of having a special "Restored Roman Empire" title becomes pointless, you could still have the mechanics that go with it such as the Augustus trait but simply remove the Roman Empire title.

 

[Enlil]

Can we change 'Byzantine Empire' to 'Empire of the Romans' or '(Eastern) Roman Empire' please?
The word Byzantine is a modern invention, back then they were still known as the Romans despite speaking Greek.

Gladly

What culture is Tartaria?

Bolghar, they once had the special title, but it got pushed away for Tartaria

 

[Joemit]

Of course, you could make it so that there are localisations for Roman titles for barbarians or just make it so as they can only have their tribal title as their primary one, just so you don't see a huge number of barbarian hordes with Roman titles that they probably shouldn't have.

 

[Enlil]

Of course, you could make it so that there are localisations for Roman titles for barbarians or just make it so as they can only have their tribal title as their primary one, just so you don't see a huge number of barbarian hordes with Roman titles that they probably shouldn't have.

I'll probably try to find, or make up alternative names for different barbarian cultures.

 

[Frednutts]

What happened to Islam in the recent playthrough? Did it just not get off the ground?

EDIT: Never mind, just seen the end date of the playthrough

 

[ekorovin]

What do you think? Would a horde of people without any concept of what a kingdom is, form a kingdom? Why should a leader of "muh tribe" form a kingdom if his first reaction to the concept of kingdom is: "Is that ... err ... kengdum ... some kind of pokemon? Is it edible?". How are they going to form a kingdom then?

First, a tribe has to integrate the general idea of titles into their society and language. For that is the crown law thing. The hybrid part would be the part where the nomadic traditions exist in paralell to the general structure of a stationary medieval realm.

Activating the crown law thingie is essentially a decision to transistion to a stationary realm as a nomad.

But there aren't peoples who doesn't understand the concept of power and titles. Like zero. From the Inuits in the North to the native Australians everyone understand the notion of territory, have some sort of authority, often hereditary. And of course there weren't such peoples in the Great Eurasian Steppe in 480. Sure they won't use the word "kingdom", they use "khanate" or "mekh-kel" or anything else. I think you're under assumption that settled people are somehow more developed, then nomadic. But if it is the case today, when nomadic people are nearly extinct, it wasn't the case for much of the historical timeline.
The second part of my post was tagged [rant] precisely for the reason it doesn't matter much :unsure:

Unrelated: Enlil, did you got my Slavic name list?

 

[Erik W]

But there aren't peoples who doesn't understand the concept of power and titles. Like zero. From the Inuits in the North to the native Australians everyone understand the notion of territory, have some sort of authority, often hereditary. And of course there weren't such peoples in the Great Eurasian Steppe in 480. Sure they won't use the word "kingdom", they use "khanate" or "mekh-kel" or anything else. I think you're under assumption that settled people are somehow more developed, then nomadic. But if it is the case today, when nomadic people are nearly extinct, it wasn't the case for much of the historical timeline.

I agree with you ekorovin, it would just be weird if the Mongols or the Golden Horde would be duchies. It just doesn´t ring the same amount of awesome power to it. Personally, I don´t understand why any people should be prohibited from creating higher titles

 

[loup99]

I think the "End" of the Migration era is simulated with conversion to Christianity, no?

I like the idea though.

Maybe it is, but this is probably also good for the dejure situation. Enlil did you get my PM?

 

[flyguy117]

Arianism seems to be spreading to fast. Would it be possible to make it more difficult ot convert Nicene provinces to Arianism? I am not saying it should be impossible, just difficult,

 

[Zusk]

Arianism seems to be spreading to fast. Would it be possible to make it more difficult ot convert Nicene provinces to Arianism? I am not saying it should be impossible, just difficult,

I think there should be a event if Nicene has high religious authority that can happen before the Great Schism that automatically converts heretic provinces back if that religion has less authority then Nicene.

A "Reverse" heresy event almost

 

[Erik W]

Arianism seems to be spreading to fast. Would it be possible to make it more difficult ot convert Nicene provinces to Arianism? I am not saying it should be impossible, just difficult,

I don´t know, the 4th and 5th centuries seems to be the golden age of Arianism but seems to get wiped out rather quickly after that. In any case, I don´t think it should be difficult or easy to convert either to either religion, at least not at first.

 

[loup99]

I don´t know, the 4th and 5th centuries seems to be the golden age of Arianism but seems to get wiped out rather quickly after that. In any case, I don´t think it should be difficult or easy to convert either to either religion, at least not at first.

Arianism could actiually had replaced Chalcedonian and I don't think it is spreading especially fast. It really depends if there is an arian realm left. If some things had gone differently in history and most of the old pagans would had stayed Arian the roman church would had died out (atleast in the west).

Is any dejure dynamic decision planned or should I try to code that and events myself?

On another note: Norse should not be existing; it was far too similar Germanic to be a separate religion at this point. Or has the germanic divide already happened?

 

[flyguy117]

I don´t know, the 4th and 5th centuries seems to be the golden age of Arianism but seems to get wiped out rather quickly after that. In any case, I don´t think it should be difficult or easy to convert either to either religion, at least not at first.

The problem with Arianism is that it was thoroughly discredited to the citizens of the Empire. While the Germanics remained Arian for a long time, it was only because they didn't what to be assimilated by their subjects. There is no historical evidence of mass conversion of Nicenes to Arianism in the 5th/6th century.

 

[unmerged(174159)]

The problem with Arianism is that it was thoroughly discredited to the citizens of the Empire. While the Germanics remained Arian for a long time, it was only because they didn't what to be assimilated by their subjects. There is no historical evidence of mass conversion of Nicenes to Arianism in the 5th/6th century.

*Bzz.* Nope.

As previously discussed the Vandalic kingdom of North Africa was strictly Arian. Here's a source on their conflict with Nicene subjects and attempts to convert them.

To save you though

'In the first three decades of the 6th Century, the Nicene church was clearly under great pressure not only from the Vandal Monarchy but from an increasingly organised Arian establishment'

The fact that the Vandal establishment were zealous IOTL does not preclude other Germanic tribes from also being zealous in the game. Also Arianism basically got boned by Hilderic in 523, who isn't really a guaranteed appearance. If he had not arrived, recalled all the Nicene bishops and restored their property rights, Arian North Africa would have likely been a thing until the ERE swept through the region/the Berber horde converted to Islam.

 

[-Hiki-]

Probably this question has been asked before and if it digs up old laid down arguments I'm sorry.

Have you though of using: Britannia 479 AD - The Winter King.

I could not find it on the first page

 

[Erik W]

The fact that the Vandal establishment were zealous IOTL does not preclude other Germanic tribes from also being zealous in the game. Also Arianism basically got boned by Hilderic in 523, who isn't really a guaranteed appearance. If he had not arrived, recalled all the Nicene bishops and restored their property rights, Arian North Africa would have likely been a thing until the ERE swept through the region/the Berber horde converted to Islam.

Yeah, the Vandals weren´t the only Arians that held for a long time. The Ostrogoths were Arians until they got ass-stomped by Justinian, the Visigoths converted in 589 and the Lombards were Arians until 671. I´d say Arianism should flower a little more, atleast either until Alaric II loses Aquitania in 507 or when the Byzantines steam into Africa and Italy in the middle of the 6th century

 

[flyguy117]

The fact that the Vandal establishment were zealous IOTL does not preclude other Germanic tribes from also being zealous in the game. Also Arianism basically got boned by Hilderic in 523, who isn't really a guaranteed appearance. If he had not arrived, recalled all the Nicene bishops and restored their property rights, Arian North Africa would have likely been a thing until the ERE swept through the region/the Berber horde converted to Islam.

While Vandal establishment was zealous in the persecution of Nicenes, there is still no evidence of mass conversion from Nicenes to Arianism. It is more likely that the Vandals would have been overthrow by their subjects or a Romano-berber invasion from the interior.

Edit: Speaking of North Africa, how will the desertification of North Africa be represented? Some say it was due to climate change, other say it was due to the Arab invasion.