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Zusk

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The only steppe "Nomads" that actually settled land in this time period were the Magyars.

I think Tribal Titles, the Migration CB, Cultural Tribal Empires for each Altaic culture and the Tengri religion simulate Steppe life well enough, I don't think they really need any more big game changing features. New flavor is always nice though
 

Zusk

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How about having all Romans as Odoacer's landed vassals but then giving him a landed mercenary company of his tribe?
Odoacer doesn't need more help keeping his realm alive. Historically his rule over Italy ended almost directly after the start date.

Think of him kind of like the Kingdom of Bulgaria in vanilla CK2
 

loup99

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The only steppe "Nomads" that actually settled land in this time period were the Magyars.

I think Tribal Titles, the Migration CB, Cultural Tribal Empires for each Altaic culture and the Tengri religion simulate Steppe life well enough, I don't think they really need any more big game changing features. New flavor is always nice though
Me too, but for the franks, anglo-saxons and alemans there should be a decision (related to the one for Armorica) that (under the condition that they have converted to a branch of christendom) settle down in the lands and becomes dejure lords with associating melting-pot later (maybe as Mr. Capaitlist suggested earlier). For inspiration of this decision take a look at Britannia, they have a good simulation of it. I have already stated this before but I think it is the best way of "ending" the roman era and enter into "the dark ages" or the early medival ones. Atleast for germanic tribes.
 

darthfanta

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Odoacer doesn't need more help keeping his realm alive. Historically his rule over Italy ended almost directly after the start date.

Think of him kind of like the Kingdom of Bulgaria in vanilla CK2
Shouldn't we at least give him a fighting chance?IIRC, he did put up quite a fight against the Ostrogoths.
 

Zusk

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Me too, but for the franks, anglo-saxons and alemans there should be a decision (related to the one for Armorica) that (under the condition that they have converted to a branch of christendom) settle down in the lands and becomes dejure lords with associating melting-pot later (maybe as Mr. Capaitlist suggested earlier). For inspiration of this decision take a look at Britannia, they have a good simulation of it. I have already stated this before but I think it is the best way of "ending" the roman era and enter into "the dark ages" or the early medival ones. Atleast for germanic tribes.
I think the "End" of the Migration era is simulated with conversion to Christianity, no?

I like the idea though.


Shouldn't we at least give him a fighting chance?IIRC, he did put up quite a fight against the Ostrogoths.
I was thinking that the Ostrogoths could begin with like 20k event troops and begin at war with Odoacer with a "Invasion of Italia" CB. They should have a chance but I don't know how giving them a vassal mercenary company would help.
 

Erik W

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How about having all Romans as Odoacer's landed vassals but then giving him a landed mercenary company of his tribe?
Odoacer doesn't need more help keeping his realm alive. Historically his rule over Italy ended almost directly after the start date.

Think of him kind of like the Kingdom of Bulgaria in vanilla CK2
Shouldn't we at least give him a fighting chance?IIRC, he did put up quite a fight against the Ostrogoths.
Well the Senate would totaly rule all of Latium, maybe even all of Italy. The rest of the vassals would be random Romans, Dalmatians and "Odoacer´s culture". I agree that Odoacer doesn´t need any help, he basically set himself up to be ass-stomped, as he was after 17 years of rule. Don´t get me wrong, he shouldn´t be weak, but he shouldn´t be amazing either.

Something that I thought about: The Senate should have a decision that regards the request for more authority over the native Romans. Example:

Odoacer rules Italy, the Senate rules Latium.

Senate wants to protect their fellow Romans and requests for more territory to administer for Odoacer

Option 1: Senate asks for a duchy to hold and Odoacer agrees to give it.

Option 2: Odoacer denies the request

(This decision should be available for every duchy with a province that is Roman culture)

I was thinking that the Ostrogoths could begin with like 20k event troops and begin at war with Odoacer with a "Invasion of Italia" CB. They should have a chance but I don't know how giving them a vassal mercenary company would help.
Remember that Theoderic doesn´t invade Italy at start, but at 493 AD, 13 years into the game.
 

Zusk

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Well the Senate would totaly rule all of Latium, maybe even all of Italy. The rest of the vassals would be random Romans, Dalmatians and "Odoacer´s culture". I agree that Odoacer doesn´t need any help, he basically set himself up to be ass-stomped, as he was after 17 years of rule. Don´t get me wrong, he shouldn´t be weak, but he shouldn´t be amazing either.

Something that I thought about: The Senate should have a decision that regards the request for more authority over the native Romans. Example:

Odoacer rules Italy, the Senate rules Latium.

Senate wants to protect their fellow Romans and requests for more territory to administer for Odoacer

Option 1: Senate asks for a duchy to hold and Odoacer agrees to give it.

Option 2: Odoacer denies the request

(This decision should be available for every duchy with a province that is Roman culture)
I think there should be general flavor to simulate Germans ruling Romans, it can culminate either in something akin to the Liber Iudiciorum with Romans and Germans being granted the same set of laws instead of being count as seperate or in the domination of one culture over the other.
 

Erik W

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Also, IMO, Odoacer shouldn't be an emperor. Being an emperor should be a really big thing, like how it was historically with the emperors of the HRE needing to be crowned by the Pope and everything.
I have already dropped the case of Odoacer being an emperor, there is no need to continue to argue against it
 

Zusk

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I have titular empires available for all Altaic culture nations. "Avar Khaganate". "Khazar Khaganate" etc
 

ekorovin

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What is the point of what? I don't understand what you are talking about.
I don't understand where the need to arbitrary limit nomads' options for title creating come from? Small tribe, which doesn't have land enough to create a kingdom (true nomad, in you terms) won't create a kingdom anyway. Tribe, that conquered enough land suddenly becomes "semi-nomad". So yeah, what's the point of that?

[rant] Plus I really don't like term "semi-nomad", or "hybrid". No, early medieval Turks and medieval Mongols weren't semi-nomadic, they were full fledged nomads. No, nomads don't use land and then move on (only some SF races do that), they have their territory in which they migrate. Even your reindeer-herders have specific territory (Chukchi territory is 7/10 of the size of the whole Europe, btw). Modern Kyrgyz are semi-nomadic, they have stationary villages, but in summer men migrate with herds into the specific stationary location in the mountines, that's what semi-nomadic means. [/rant]
 

BaronIronmaggot

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I don't understand where the need to arbitrary limit nomads' options for title creating come from? Small tribe, which doesn't have land enough to create a kingdom (true nomad, in you terms) won't create a kingdom anyway. Tribe, that conquered enough land suddenly becomes "semi-nomad". So yeah, what's the point of that?
What do you think? Would a horde of people without any concept of what a kingdom is, form a kingdom? Why should a leader of "muh tribe" form a kingdom if his first reaction to the concept of kingdom is: "Is that ... err ... kengdum ... some kind of pokemon? Is it edible?". How are they going to form a kingdom then?

First, a tribe has to integrate the general idea of titles into their society and language. For that is the crown law thing. The hybrid part would be the part where the nomadic traditions exist in paralell to the general structure of a stationary medieval realm.

Activating the crown law thingie is essentially a decision to transistion to a stationary realm as a nomad.

[rant] Plus I really don't like term "semi-nomad", or "hybrid". No, early medieval Turks and medieval Mongols weren't semi-nomadic, they were full fledged nomads. No, nomads don't use land and then move on (only some SF races do that), they have their territory in which they migrate. Even your reindeer-herders have specific territory (Chukchi territory is 7/10 of the size of the whole Europe, btw). Modern Kyrgyz are semi-nomadic, they have stationary villages, but in summer men migrate with herds into the specific stationary location in the mountines, that's what semi-nomadic means. [/rant]
Its not like I said that "you must definately use these names". I only used these names because I didn't think of anything better at that moment. And, please, don't try to mix my context driven terms with the strick scientific definitions in university of History. That is just a dirty move.
 

Enlil

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Enlil

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2nd Playthrough 520

World Nations:


World Religions:


Top Nations:
(In Order)
Byzantine Empire:
Leader: Empress Ioustina Tarasis
Culture: Greek
Religion: Nicene

Germania Inferior
Leader: King Childeric Meroving
Culture: Old Frankish
Religion: Germanic Pagan

Mukhtarid
Leader: Sultan Mukhtar the Unready
Culture: Levantine
Religion: Nestorian (Majority Messalian )

Rheged
Leader: King Dafydd Glynys the Cruel
Culture: Briton
Religion: Insular

Visigothica (Heir will inherit Suebia )
Leader: Queen Ansobrida Balti
Culture: Visigothic
Religion: Arian

Persia
Leader: Shahanshah Zareh Sassanid
Culture: Persian
Religion: Zoroastrian

Saxony
Leader: Kuning Hadugato Hattonid the Dragon
Culture: Old Saxon
Religion: Germanic Pagan

Oriens
Leader: Despot Leonitus Polkarios the Quarreler
Culture: Greek
Religion: Nicene

Hepthalites
Leader: Emperor Pacorus Gaoche
Culture: Hepthalite
Religion: Zoroastrian

Herul
Leader: Piudi Firdarik
Culture: Heruli
Religion: Germanic Pagan

Italy
Leader: King Berthar the Great
Culture: Thuringian
Religion: Arian

Caledonia
Leader: Ri Fergus "Half-Hand" Deototreic
Culture: Pictish
Religion: Celtic Pagan

Thuringia
Leader: King Bisinus Amalding the Old
Culture: Thuringian
Religion: Germanic Pagan

Egypt:
Leader: Despot Alexandros Philaretos the Cruel
Culture: Greek
Religion: Nicene

Mauri
Leader: Sultan Tariq Shaheen the Just
Culture: Berber
Religion: West African Pagan

Interesting Nations:

Moesia Inferior (Heir will inherit Asia
Leader: Queen Kera Ognjen
Culture: Old Slavic
Religion: Georgian Orthodox

Tripolitana
Leader: High Chief Aksel Soukid the Cruel
Culture: African Romance
Religion: West African Pagan

Azd'Uman
Leader: Emir Khaireddin Azd'Uman
Culture: Bedouin
Religion: Hindu

Manichean Revolt
Leader: Abdullah
Culture: Bedouin
Religion: Manichean


Picture
The Oriens and Egypt are locked in an epic battle for Sinai
 

Zusk

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I would give them all children, currently its possible for example for the Byzantine emperor to execute the Despot of Egypt and instantly gain the title
 

Enlil

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I would give them all children, currently its possible for example for the Byzantine emperor to execute the Despot of Egypt and instantly gain the title
That has happened a few times, I will give them children.
 

Zusk

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What culture is Tartaria?
 
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