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Enlil

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Also, I am going to keep the kingdom of Anatolia, (or name it Asia or something), and make Pontus, Bithynia, Galatia, Cappadocia, ect Duchies under it.
 

Erik W

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Can we get some good ideas for religious flavor events?

Arian, Priscillianism, Cult of the Most High God, ect?
Well to start with, you could name "Cult of the Most High God" Hypsistarianism, since they called themselves Hypsistarians
 

Enlil

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Well to start with, you could name "Cult of the Most High God" Hypsistarianism, since they called themselves Hypsistarians
It is called that now
 

JGBeagle

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I had to cover a shift this morning so I didn't get much done on the Rise of Islam. Is there a way make an unlanded character choose to arrive in one of two courts? Or is something I should have the Pope choose (since he's always around, he is always around in this mod, right?) a la the Mongol events?

Also, damn you Paradox, why'd you have to make Rajas of India? Now I can't abbreviate Rise of Islam without it looking like Rajas of India. :(
 

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As E. James claims, Syagrius might haven't existed, and what we know for sure about a roman-like kingdom during that era, was one centered around Trier
 

Enlil

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As E. James claims, Syagrius might haven't existed, and what we know for sure about a roman-like kingdom during that era, was one centered around Trier
Blasphemy!
 

unmerged(174159)

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Arian theology is essentially predicated on the idea that Jesus Christ, as son of god, must have followed from the material of god - he is the son of god. The Nicene creed of 325 says that Jesus Christ was the son of god, but also of god (of same substance).

Basically, If you have a deck of cards, Catholic theology as we know it and as codified then, was that You have two Kings of Hearts in the deck. Arian theology says Jesus was not a second King, but the other male card. Same suit, same power but a different card. (Knight? Jack? Knave. YMMV). This is predicated on the following passage from the gospel of John - "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

More detail:
The letter of Arian Auxentius [11] regarding the Arian missionary Ulfilas, gives the clearest picture of Arian beliefs. Arian Ulfilas who was ordained a bishop by Arian Eusebius of Nicomedia and returned to his people to work as a missionary believed:

God, the Father, ("unbegotten" God; Almighty God Genesis 35:11) is always existing (Exodus 3:14; Psalm 90:2; Psalm 93:2). God the Father is the only true God (John 17:3). The Logos of God, ("only-begotten God" John 1:18; [12] Mighty God Isaiah 9:6) was begotten before time began (Proverbs 8:22-29; Revelation 3:14; Colossians 1:15) and incarnated as the Son of God. The Son of God is Lord/Master (1 Cor 8:6). The Holy Spirit (the illuminating and sanctifying power Acts 1:8; Luke 24:49)is neither God nor Lord/Master.
Wikipedia says that they were perhaps a more anti-political movement, since the Nicene creed was both a modification on text, and moved toward a political alliance with the ERE, especially after the edict forcing all subjects to follow the Nicene Creed of 325. Given that all surviving written materials are either criticisms or refutations of their arguments it could be seen that this is a division between a minority group with a stricter reading of the New Testament than the Nicene creed adhered to. Despite the flowering of Nicene creed under Theodosius though, prior to this point the Roman peoples had flipped back and forth depending on the ruler with regards to Arianism, and members of the imperial family had been Arian for years so there should be possibilities there.

Outside of the Romans, the Germanic elites tended towards Arianism and generally were tolerant of their subjects. Only the Vandals were really religiously intolerant toward Nicene subjects and I think this was partly due to their status of an elite on a minority on a subject people (so this could be represented with Arianism being generally able to intermarry with Nicene/Insular etc).

So TO THE POINT! (TL;DR) - I don't really think Arianism would have much difference than Nicene, except perhaps a refutation of the authority of the Bishops of Rome and Alexandria, autocephalous, different holy orders and a shot at taking the ERE back? It is a vibrant and active faith though, and if they are out in the cold from game start you could have events that set up parallel structures, with Arianism attempting to either respond to the developments in Constantinople, ignore them etc. If the Visigoths, Suebi and Vandals last long-term and don't vanish into the berbero-roman population and stand the storm of Islam, they should get some events - perhaps like how the Ummayads became the Caliphs in Iberia, the Arians could have their own holy sites and movement in that region (Hispania, Narbonensis, North Africa) etcetc.

Edit: forgot the game date, I think you could definitely do some stuff here, looking at the Good Copt/Bad Copt mod for stylings/ideas and the ummayad divergence from the islamic mainstream culture *andalusian etc* as inspiration. We could see something very fun and give Spain a chance to escape Franco 15 centuries early!
 

Joemit

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I've been working on the legions and I've come up against a bit of a brick wall, metaphorically speaking. The legions are showing up as regular vassals and not mercenaries. Here's the code for a legion:
Code:
d_legio_i_dalmatia = {
	color={ 180 180 180 }
	color2={ 255 255 255 }
	
	graphical_culture = orthodoxholygfx

	capital = 496 # Byzantion
	
	# Parent Religion 
	religion = nicene
	
	culture = roman
	
	mercenary = yes

	title = "COMES"
	foa = "COMES_FOA"

	# Always exists
	landless = yes
	
	# Cannot be held as a secondary title
	primary = yes
	
	strength_growth_per_century = -0.10
	
	mercenary_type = roman_legion_composition
}
And here's the code for restoring three legions from Dalmatia. (Ignore the Anatolia part, that's just there for testing)

Code:
	organize_dalmatian_legions = {
		is_high_prio = yes
		potential = {
			has_landed_title = e_byzantium
			has_landed_title = e_wre
			is_female = no
			prisoner = no
			age = 16
			completely_controls = k_dalmatia
			NOT = { has_global_flag = dalmatian_legions_founded }
		}
		allow = {
			wealth = 6000
		}
		effect = {
			set_global_flag = legio_i_dalmatia_founded
			prestige = 300
			wealth = -6000
			activate_title = { title = d_legio_i_dalmatia status = yes }
			hidden_tooltip = {
				create_character = {
					random_traits = yes
					religion = nicene_christian
					culture = roman
					dynasty = NONE
					female = no
					age = 34
					trait = skilled_tactician
				}
				new_character = {
					d_legio_i_dalmatia = {
						grant_title = PREV
					}
					set_defacto_liege = e_byzantium
				}
			}

			hidden_tooltip = {
				create_character = {
					random_traits = yes
					religion = nicene_christian
					culture = roman
					dynasty = NONE
					female = no
					age = 34
					trait = skilled_tactician
				}
				new_character = {
					d_legio_i_dalmatia = {
						grant_title = PREV
					}
					set_defacto_liege = e_byzantium
				}
			}

			hidden_tooltip = {
				create_character = {
					random_traits = yes
					religion = nicene_christian
					culture = roman
					dynasty = NONE
					female = no
					age = 34
					trait = skilled_tactician
				}
				new_character = {
					d_legio_i_dalmatia = {
						grant_title = PREV
					}
					set_defacto_liege = e_byzantium
				}
			}
		}
		ai_will_do = {
			factor = 1
		}
	}
Anyone know what the problem is?
 
Last edited:

loup99

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Can we get some good ideas for religious flavor events?

Arian, Priscillianism, Cult of the Most High God, ect?
Could have events modeling conflicts between local bishops that are Nicene and flavour around Rome if it becomes controlled by an arian ruler.
 

JGBeagle

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Does anyone know where I can find the event that forces the Mongol Empire (the Bookmark one; not one of the three Mongol Hordes) to break apart into the Ilkhanete and Golden Horde? That event would be perfect to represent the breakaway into Sunnis and Shi'a.

No doomstacks are required for this event so it should be safe to use. ;)
 

ekorovin

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You have to consider that between the Destruction of Pompei and the Startdate of the Mod is a 400 year time period that saw the Destruction of ancient knowledge by the Rise of Christianity and the Migrations so if you werent a Historican i think you would say that it is only a legend or simply dont know about it. And its true that the Romans had a city called Illium but it wasnt the "legendary Troy" from the Illias so that isnt an argument.

Also the Ruins had great amounts of treasurs in them when they were found so that could be a reason.
I don't want to start a discussion about "the destruction of Ancient knowledge by the rise of Christianity" and other moderns Atheist religious dogmas, so I'll just ask what's the significance of Pompeii and Troy for restoration of Hellenic religon? Pompeii was a resort town, very important for us, because we can see ideally preserved Roman town, but completely unimportant for Romans. Troy, well, people new about Troy from Iliad and myths. When I was in London, I visited Baker Street, 22b, Sherlock Holmes' house, Troy would be pretty much the same for Hellen.
Restoration of Olimpic Games or Eleuthinian Mysteries would be a lot more suitable.
 

loup99

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Does anyone know where I can find the event that forces the Mongol Empire (the Bookmark one; not one of the three Mongol Hordes) to break apart into the Ilkhanete and Golden Horde? That event would be perfect to represent the breakaway into Sunnis and Shi'a.

No doomstacks are required for this event so it should be safe to use. ;)
Not really perfect as the difference is theologic and not political. The caliphate should not just shatter apart into two bits. Also when the division has happened ther should not be any "Old Islamic" as that was not really the case.

Restoration of Olimpic Games or Eleuthinian Mysteries would be a lot more suitable.
I would say the olympics. ;)
 

Erik W

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Can we get some good ideas for religious flavor events?

Arian, Priscillianism, Cult of the Most High God, ect?
Have been reading about Hypsistarianism and so far I could see these events in the game:

Events regarding whether Hypsistos is the only god or if Zeus and/or Attis (Phyrgian god of vegetation) also are gods to be worshipped

Events regarding the similarities between Hypsistarianism and Christianity and Judaism
 

JGBeagle

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Not really perfect as the difference is theologic and not political. The caliphate should not just shatter apart into two bits. Also when the division has happened ther should not be any "Old Islamic" as that was not really the case.
I am aware of that, however in order to make an attempt at history I must bend to the capabilities of the game. Since there is no in-game way to simulate a religious schism by event I need to break up the two Caliphs and that Mongol Empire break up event (if it exists at all) would work perfect for that. My way of eliminating Islam is by using an event that would force all characters with the Islam religion to convert to whatever Caliph they're under. Then I would have an additional event trigger that would force-convert all Islam provinces to it's owner's religion.

It's messy, but it should get the job done.

EDIT: Unfortunately it appears that no such event exists. The split only occurs when you move the date at the selection screen. I'll have to figure some other way to get the separate Caliphs to appear. Maybe if I have the Shia one appear and then have the religion conversion become a choice for every character. That would turn the entire Arabian Peninsula into a hotbath of rebellions, which would help to curb their power and help prevent them from conquering their way to Italy hopefully.
 
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Zusk

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That would turn the entire Arabian Peninsula into a hotbath of rebellions, which would help to curb their power and help prevent them from conquering their way to Italy hopefully.


Islam was painfully close to expanding across France and Italy, such a revolt and rebellion is pretty a-historical.

If Islam manages to form and take control of Arabia ( Which should be about 50 percent of games, think the Magyars forming hungary ) They should at least have a chance instead of being split up 10 years after before conquering anything outside of the peninsula due to revolt.

Islam, in its early years should have a -lot- of religious fervor seen in game with automatic opinion modifiers for vassals from the "Sayidd" trait, event troops that help encourage them to rise early and eventually fall as their troops diminish along with high religious authority to keep too many heresies from popping up extremely early on. Later on as the Arabs settle across their conquered territory

( And really they -should- conquer the territory they did historically, it would feel wrong and a-historical to have them expand into Central Asia, though expanding deeper into India instead of going into Iberia is certainly a choice. )

( This is why I think giving them strong claims in a snowballing effect would work, it would both help them hold the territory initially but as they have lots of children as muslims do that would leave a -lot- of children with lots of strong claims, giving ample room for revolt if the chance ever does show its head. )

Also, it would be extremely boring if the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire at the power they are at at the start date could beat out the Muslims by themselves. With a 8k retinue that the Persians should have at that size and their retinue, mercenaries from having so much money and god forbid any holy orders it would be -really- hard for those 20k to hold up, especially after losing like 5-10k from attacking the other arab tribes in the desert
 
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Erik W

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Can we get some good ideas for religious flavor events?

Arian, Priscillianism, Cult of the Most High God, ect?
Priscillianism could have the following things:

Decision: Observe Christmas Day Faste

Event: A request for salvation - This would be a request from one of your Priscillian courties, vassals or even family members, regarding the pshycological health of that person (could characters with Wounded, Stressed, Depressed or Maimed traits). That person is seeking the salvation they religiously believe is death and have come to ask permission to commit suicide. Three options:

Grant the request and aid the person in the suicide. Consequence: +Piety, -non-Priscillian courtiers/vassals opinion, +Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, the courtier/vassal dies

Grant the request. Consequence: +Piety, -non-Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, +Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, the courtier/vassal dies

Deny the request. Consequence: -Piety, +non-Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, -Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, New Event



Deny the request - Follow up Event:

Try to convince not to commit suicide. Consequence: -Piety, +non-Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, -Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, 50% chance courtier/vassal dies, 50% chance courtier/vassal survives

Do nothing. Consequence: 90% chance courtier/vassal dies, 10% courtier/vassal survives

Lock him/her up for preemptive purposes. Consequence: -Piety, +non-Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, -Priscillian courtier/vassal opinion, 75% chance courtier/vassal dies, 25% chance courtier/vassal survives
 

Erik W

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If Islam manages to form and take control of Arabia ( Which should be about 50 percent of games, think the Magyars forming hungary ) They should at least have a chance instead of being split up 10 years after before conquering anything outside of the peninsula due to revolt
A chance, of course. But I feel that 50% is a way too high number. I think this is a better setup:

15%: Islam is never created

25%: Islam is created but never embraced by many and converted away after a while

25% Islam is embraced by a few nations in Arabia but never becomes a major religion

15% Islam becomes the religion of Arabia but never unifies it

10% Islam unifies Arabia, nothing more

10% Islam ass-stomps everything and becomes as widespread as it is today.

The last "Butterfly effect" possibility should be very rare
 

Zusk

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A chance, of course. But I feel that 50% is a way too high number. I think this is a better setup:

15%: Islam is never created

25%: Islam is created but never embraced by many and converted away after a while

25% Islam is embraced by a few nations in Arabia but never becomes a major religion

15% Islam becomes the religion of Arabia but never unifies it

10% Islam unifies Arabia, nothing more

10% Islam ass-stomps everything and becomes as widespread as it is today.

The last "Butterfly effect" possibility should be very rare
If Islam only forms in 10 percent of all games, does that mean that strong powers at the start like the Vandals would never die out and live on for 1000 years?

I would certainly be a bit rustled if 1000 years into the game the map barely looks different besides Byzantines and Persia getting a bit bigger. Cultures like "Vandal" and "Visigothic" still being unchanged for thousands of years due to the lack of outside influence on them.

What if we added several 'alternate' invasions such as a West African invasion, a early Turkic invasion from Turkestan and even a major slavic power forming a 'Slavic Empire' of sorts to conquer Europe? This way the map could change but it wouldn't always be Islam that does the changing

Just some ideas, I just don't like the idea of "In 10 percent of games have things change, in 90 percent have Islam die out and have arabia annexed by Byzantium and Persia"
 

Erik W

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Islam, in its early years should have a -lot- of religious fervor seen in game with automatic opinion modifiers for vassals from the "Sayidd" trait, event troops that help encourage them to rise early and eventually fall as their troops diminish along with high religious authority to keep too many heresies from popping up extremely early on. Later on as the Arabs settle across their conquered territory

( And really they -should- conquer the territory they did historically, it would feel wrong and a-historical to have them expand into Central Asia, though expanding deeper into India instead of going into Iberia is certainly a choice. )

( This is why I think giving them strong claims in a snowballing effect would work, it would both help them hold the territory initially but as they have lots of children as muslims do that would leave a -lot- of children with lots of strong claims, giving ample room for revolt if the chance ever does show its head. )

Also, it would be extremely boring if the Byzantine Empire and the Persian Empire at the power they are at at the start date could beat out the Muslims by themselves. With a 8k retinue that the Persians should have at that size and their retinue, mercenaries from having so much money and god forbid any holy orders it would be -really- hard for those 20k to hold up, especially after losing like 5-10k from attacking the other arab tribes in the desert
We´re talking about an upstart religion among the backwater (sorry) tribes of Arabia here. It should only be in very rare and LUCKY cases that it manages to unify the penninsula, much less defeat the two major powers of the world and become a world religion. It should not happen often
 
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