When the World Stopped Making Sense [ A 480 Migrational Period Mod]

When the World Stopped Making Sense [ A 480 Migrational Period Mod]

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Joemit

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OK, how about removing the -0.10% decrease over the hundreds of years, maybe replace it with a 0 percent increase?
EDIT: Here's a map with the number of legions
trajan roman provinces.jpg
 
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Erik W

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OK, how about removing the -0.10% decrease over the hundreds of years, maybe replace it with a 0 percent increase?

NO. Like this. If the Empire is:

Power Number 1 = 0.10% increase per year

Power Number 2 = 0.08%

Power Number 3 = 0.06%

Power Number 4 = 0.04%

Power Number 5 = 0.02%

Power 6-10 or 15 = 0%

Power 10< or 15<= -0.01% per position
 
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Zusk

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NO. Like this. If the Empire is:

Power Number 1 = 0.10% increase per year

Power Number 2 = 0.08%

Power Number 3 = 0.06%

Power Number 4 = 0.04%

Power Number 5 = 0.02%

Power 6-10 or 15 = 0%

Power 15<= -0.01% per position

Shouldn't a weak empire stop using Legions as they adopt feudalism?

Unless I am reading your graph wrong, Legions should really exist as flavor to help a resurgent Roman empire.
 

Enlil

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This got me thinking, shouldn´t there be a decision that allows you to reform your realm in general? Examples of this would be to restore Diocletian´s Tetrarchy, redesign your provinces and districts (dejure kingdoms and duchies) and naming foederatis (that would be allies without family ties, is that possible in CK2?)

Edit: Province Redesign Example:

Germania splits into Inferior and Superior

Raetia-Noricum splits into Raetia and Noricum

Moesia is absorbed into Thrace

Baetica merges with Carthaginesnsis

1. Sure, I'll split Germania
2.Sure, I'll split them
3. Of course
4. Nope

Sounds nice. If they empire bankrupts, the legions should just proclaim someone as the new emperor.At any rate, I don't understand the legion sizes decrease over the years thing though.WHY?

It was an idea earlier thrown out to make the Legions obsolete.

Shouldn't a weak empire stop using Legions as they adopt feudalism?

Unless I am reading your graph wrong, Legions should really exist as flavor to help a resurgent Roman empire.

Yes, except for what legions the Byzantine still have.

And to Loup, the granting of Latium decision makes sense, so It will probably be in. (If I figure out how to fix the uniting the Franks decision.
 
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Enlil

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Also, I have decided to split Belgica into Belgica and Germania Superior. Germania Inferior will remain a duchy in Belgica.
 

Erik W

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Shouldn't a weak empire stop using Legions as they adopt feudalism?

Unless I am reading your graph wrong, Legions should really exist as flavor to help a resurgent Roman empire.

Alright, how about this?:

Power Number 1 = 0.10% increase per year

Power Number 2 = 0.08%

Power Number 3 = 0.06%

Power Number 4 = 0.04%

Power Number 5 = 0.02%

Power Number 6 = -0.02%

Power Number 7 = -0.04%

Power Number 8 = -0.06%

Power Number 9 = -0.08%

Power Number 10 = -0.10%

Power Number 11 and below = Loses legions all together

If Power 10 regained, decision to reinstate 1000 men legions
 

Erik W

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Also, I have decided to split Belgica into Belgica and Germania Superior. Germania Inferior will remain a duchy in Belgica.

Will you atleast make it possible for the player to carve out Germania Inferior as a kingdom?
 

Enlil

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Update: I keep looking, and I just can't figure out how to set up Germania Inferior, Superior, and Belgica. I'll just post this, and could comeone else draw what they think the borders should be.

GaLFXDb.png
 

Erik W

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GaLFXDb.png

As good as I can make it:

Dark Red: Inferior

Red: Superior

Brown: Belgica Secunda

Orange: Belgica Prima

Blue: Lugdunensis

Purple: Maxima Sequanorum

Green: Narbonensis (should actually be a part of Aquitania)

Beige: Aqutiania (Septem Provinciae)

Yellow: Vindelicia

Pink: Germania Magna

Light Grey: Raetia-Noricum (ignore same colored Britannia)

Grey: Germania Slavica

Dark Green: Cimbria
 

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Qantrix

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Update: I keep looking, and I just can't figure out how to set up Germania Inferior, Superior, and Belgica. I'll just post this, and could comeone else draw what they think the borders should be.

How about something like this:

Belgica.png


I looked at your original de jure set-up of Belgica and the counties of Amiens (Samarobriva) and Reims (Durocorturum) aren't in the de jure border so I would go for two other duchies: Verodonum and Besontio. They were both fairly large during Roman times and they make for some nice round borders. The two Germania's roughly correspond with their RL borders, Germania Inferior stretched further inland from the Rhine but that would make Nemetacum too small.

I left out Zeeland, Germania Inferior is large enough as is and these islands were virtually depopulated at this point, IIRC.
 

ekorovin

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To summarize my thoughts on WRE - it shouldn't be possible to AI to restore it, and it should be very hard for human player. Anything that kills out legions is good for me, that train has already sailed, even miraculously restored empire in the West would be very different from Antiquity.

And now to something completely different: my ideas for Sassanids, empire very much alive in the beginning of the game:
1) They should get a reconquest CB on everything in Achaemenids' borders, to simulate their claim to be "Kings of Kings of Iran and non-Iran" (seriously, it's their title).It also sets them on collision course with ERE,which is nice, we need this World War to happen for Muslims to have a chance.
2) Around 480, Mazdak appears, reigning Shah gets a decision to support him. If he does, he turns Mazdaki. He gets event troops (peasant army) and can revoke anything from Zoroastrians. But of course everybody hates him and he has to deal with revolts. If he declines, he has to fight peasant army.
 

darthfanta

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To summarize my thoughts on WRE - it shouldn't be possible to AI to restore it, and it should be very hard for human player. Anything that kills out legions is good for me, that train has already sailed, even miraculously restored empire in the West would be very different from Antiquity.

And now to something completely different: my ideas for Sassanids, empire very much alive in the beginning of the game:
1) They should get a reconquest CB on everything in Achaemenids' borders, to simulate their claim to be "Kings of Kings of Iran and non-Iran" (seriously, it's their title).It also sets them on collision course with ERE,which is nice, we need this World War to happen for Muslims to have a chance.
2) Around 480, Mazdak appears, reigning Shah gets a decision to support him. If he does, he turns Mazdaki. He gets event troops (peasant army) and can revoke anything from Zoroastrians. But of course everybody hates him and he has to deal with revolts. If he declines, he has to fight peasant army.
Sassanids should also get free duchy revoke.
 

Erik W

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Erik W

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I looked at your original de jure set-up of Belgica and the counties of Amiens (Samarobriva) and Reims (Durocorturum) aren't in the de jure border so I would go for two other duchies: Verodonum and Besontio. They were both fairly large during Roman times and they make for some nice round borders. The two Germania's roughly correspond with their RL borders, Germania Inferior stretched further inland from the Rhine but that would make Nemetacum too small.

I left out Zeeland, Germania Inferior is large enough as is and these islands were virtually depopulated at this point, IIRC.

What are you talking about? Samarobriva and Durocorturum were both a part of Belgica Secunda towards the end of the Empire. Durocorturum was its capital! Also, Germania Inferior should not be a duchy. Superior I can understand but not Inferior. Furthermore, the duchies of Belgica and Germania should be:

Secunda:
Gesoriacum
Samarobriva
Durocorturum

Prima:
Treverorum
Divodurum

Inferior:
Colonia Aggrippina
Noviomagus

Superior:
Argentorate
 

Mr. Capiatlist

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To summarize my thoughts on WRE - it shouldn't be possible to AI to restore it, and it should be very hard for human player. Anything that kills out legions is good for me, that train has already sailed, even miraculously restored empire in the West would be very different from Antiquity.
I completely agree. Can't we have a game based after the fall of the Western Roman Empire without gushing like its rise is not only imminent, but it never really fell to begin with? I feel we are wasting a lot of effort on a what-if.

Sassanids should also get free duchy revoke.

Why, how is that a thing all the sudden?
It is the same as the Byzantine's ability currently, essentially representing the supreme authority of the Shah over his subjects. Your power lies on his whims.
 

Emir of Aleppo

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And now to something completely different: my ideas for Sassanids, empire very much alive in the beginning of the game:
1) They should get a reconquest CB on everything in Achaemenids' borders, to simulate their claim to be "Kings of Kings of Iran and non-Iran" (seriously, it's their title).It also sets them on collision course with ERE,which is nice, we need this World War to happen for Muslims to have a chance.
2) Around 480, Mazdak appears, reigning Shah gets a decision to support him. If he does, he turns Mazdaki. He gets event troops (peasant army) and can revoke anything from Zoroastrians. But of course everybody hates him and he has to deal with revolts. If he declines, he has to fight peasant army.

+1. Also didnt the Sassanids persecute Christians due to their percieved links with the ERE? AFAIK this was a reason why the "Church of the East" was established. Maybe this could be covered in this mod?

_______________

Overall I think you guys are doing a great job. Really looking forward to this mod!
 

Qantrix

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What are you talking about? Samarobriva and Durocorturum were both a part of Belgica Secunda towards the end of the Empire. Durocorturum was its capital! Also, Germania Inferior should not be a duchy. Superior I can understand but not Inferior. Furthermore, the duchies of Belgica and Germania should be:

Secunda:
Gesoriacum
Samarobriva
Durocorturum

Prima:
Treverorum
Divodurum

Inferior:
Colonia Aggrippina
Noviomagus

Superior:
Argentorate

I'm basing my work on the vanilla CK2 provinces and the outline given on this map and in this post. It's a bit silly to make Germania inferior a Kingdom, based on that logic you could have hundreds of them.
 
Last edited:

Erik W

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I completely agree. Can't we have a game based after the fall of the Western Roman Empire without gushing like its rise is not only imminent, but it never really fell to begin with? I feel we are wasting a lot of effort on a what-if.

Its just phase, we discuss things as they come to mind (or something like that) and we explore the possibilities of the situation. A while back we were discussing the Franks, cultures and Barbarian Migrations. Now we´re discussing the composition of Gaul, the legion system and now Persia. Be patient and we´ll shift focus again.
 
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