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Joemit

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Why do they have to make sense? How is that historically important? Why not just keep the names and you get them when you conquer the region they are stationed in?
Because it feels weird conquering Gaul with a Gaulish legion while playing as the Byzantines. I'll keep the names, see how it goes. If it feels strange then I'll change them to different names.
Also, sometimes you can't tell where a legion was stationed. There isn't much Wikipedia info on a lot of them.
 

KingdomofWales

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This looks like a fantastic mod, I can't wait to play it. I feel like I should point something out though - I see it crop up a lot in mods that deal with the post-Western Empire period. Please understand that I'm just trying to be helpful and not trying to be the history hall monitor just because I work in the field.

Technically speaking, by the end of the 5th century (by 500 C.E.), every territory which was ruled by Romans prior to the dissolution of the Western Empire should still be cultured 'Roman.' The only real exception that I think could be argued for would be eastern, lowland Britain, which could probably be identified as something-Germanic by the 500s, and Western, Highland Britain, which should still be considered 'Romano-Briton' culturally. I wouldn't even go so far (at this point) to differentiating between Gallo-Roman, Hispano-Roman, Romano-African, Italo-Roman, Greco-Roman, Romano-Syriac, Romano-Egyptian culture at this point. Certain the Eastern provinces would not lose their unified 'Roman'ness until at the very earliest the Persian conquests of the early-seventh century (600s-630s), when you can start to see Monophysitism emergning in Syria and Egypt as a component of ethnic identity - Coptic and Syrian, respectively. In the West, the de-Romanization of Italy would actually precede that of Gaul or Hispania, due to the ravages of the Gothic War (540s-550s critically) and the successive Lombard invasion (after which you could label Italy 'Romano-Lombard' outside of Roman-held Rome, Ravenna, and other surviving holdouts), but by 600 you can start to see Gallo-Roman (Occitan), Frankish, and Hispano-Roman cultures emerging out of the Western Provinces, and a Romano-African culture (as distinct from the late Roman culture which should still exist in Thrace, Anatolia, and Palestine) beginning to take shape in North Africa. The Balkans, outside of Thrace and Thessaly, you could probably culture as 'Slavic' or 'Romano-Slavic' by 630, although 'Romano-Slavic' isn't really a term we use. 'Roman,' however, should still apply to Thrace, Thessaly, Anatolia, and Palestine until the 650s, after which the Arabs securely held Palestine, and the surviving Roman provinces in the Balkans and Anatolia were converting to the theme system, which technically you should label 'Romanoi', since the medieval Roman Empire we erroneously and anachronistically call 'Byzantium' was never called that by its inhabitants, who always referred to themselves as 'Romans,' --- just in Greek.

I have no idea how a system like this could play out: a series of events, maybe, kicking in when years change, or when a territory has been removed from Roman Imperial control for a certain amount of time? I'd just love to see a mod reflect the current historical thinking on identity in the Late Antique period, and since I haven't got a clue how to do one myself, I thought I'd pop in and see if I could be any help from a scholarly perspective. Sorry if I annoyed anyone.
 

JonStryker

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They might not have had a huge impact in the real world, but I think we should make that atleast possible. I mean, a player could choose either to Barbarianize Hispania with strong Visigoths or Suebians, Romanize them further then they were in the real world ,Romanize them enough to become Spanish and Portuguese or just leave their respective cultures alone.

Putting modern cultures at start? That is just wrong!
I don't think that they historically had a chance like this. One million+ Roman inhabitants and 20.000-100.000 invading Goths, probably nearer to the lower number. The Romans had the more prestigious culture and the Goths were already partially latinized themselves. So how on earth would they manage to turn all of Hispania Germanic?

Most cultures changed significantly over time. But currently few of them "evolve" from one culture into another. Putting Portuguese on the map in 480 might be ridiculous but so is Dutch in 867.
If making transitional events is to much work I'd settle upon a fixed name for the culture and put in all the names those Barbarians brought with them as well as "traditional" ones.

@Capiatlist
Why doesn't it make sense that Slavs create French? Let's say some Slavic tribe invaded Gaul and created a long lasting empire as the Franks did. Sure, the name would be different but the result might be alike. French would only have a bunch more Slavic loan words and probably some popular first names derived from Slavic.
 

ekorovin

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Speaking of Iran, around 480 Mazdaki heresy rears it head. It'd be nice, if ruling shah had a decision to support it, to simulate Peroz's (Kavad's? My memory is not what it used to be) initial support of the movement.
 

Erik W

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I don't think that they historically had a chance like this. One million+ Roman inhabitants and 20.000-100.000 invading Goths, probably nearer to the lower number. The Romans had the more prestigious culture and the Goths were already partially latinized themselves. So how on earth would they manage to turn all of Hispania Germanic?

Most cultures changed significantly over time. But currently few of them "evolve" from one culture into another. Putting Portuguese on the map in 480 might be ridiculous but so is Dutch in 867.
If making transitional events is to much work I'd settle upon a fixed name for the culture and put in all the names those Barbarians brought with them as well as "traditional" ones.

@Capiatlist
Why doesn't it make sense that Slavs create French? Let's say some Slavic tribe invaded Gaul and created a long lasting empire as the Franks did. Sure, the name would be different but the result might be alike. French would only have a bunch more Slavic loan words and probably some popular first names derived from Slavic.
Why would the Slavs have to create French? They might just Slavinize Gaul and it would be something completely different than French. Or they could choose to Gallo-Romanize themselves into... Gallromavs or Gallavs? Or just Romanize into... Romavs or Slavans or Slomans? What I´m saying is:

Modern cultures should not be the predetermined final product of culture blending in the game, that just limits the game in realistic ending. I mean, if the ultimate two blending cultures in Gaul are Arabian and Danish, that would never result in the name or language French, it would be... Aranish or Danabian or Danarabian or Arabanish! See my point?
 

Erik W

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Why would the Slavs have to create French? They might just Slavinize Gaul and it would be something completely different than French. Or they could choose to Gallo-Romanize themselves into... Gallromavs or Gallavs? Or just Romanize into... Romavs or Slavans or Slomans? What I´m saying is:

Modern cultures should not be the predetermined final product of culture blending in the game, that just limits the game in realistic ending. I mean, if the ultimate two blending cultures in Gaul are Arabian and Danish, that would never result in the name or language French, it would be... Aranish or Danabian or Danarabian or Arabanish! See my point?
This basically means that we need to create hybrid cultures for every culture blended with every other culture, even like Irish and Bactrian (Examples hybrid: Bactri-Irish, Irish-Bactrian, Bactrian-Irish. Examples culture blending: Bactrish, Bactrirish, Iribactrian, Iribactrish) just because it COULD happen.

Edit: A lot of work I know but it would bring this mod very much closer to ultimate perfection!

2nd Edit: But I can also see that Im just unrealistically obsessed with this and won´t be mad if you turn me down on this
 

loup99

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This basically means that we need to create hybrid cultures for every culture blended with every other culture, even like Irish and Bactrian (Examples hybrid: Bactri-Irish, Irish-Bactrian, Bactrian-Irish. Examples culture blending: Bactrish, Bactrirish, Iribactrian, Iribactrish) just because it COULD happen.
That is uneccesary for a first realease and could only be made when the mod is entierly complete. Only realistic hybrid cultures need to exist in the beginning. Wouldn't the game take a performance hit too by doing this?
 

JonStryker

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Why would the Slavs have to create French? They might just Slavinize Gaul and it would be something completely different than French. Or they could choose to Gallo-Romanize themselves into... Gallromavs or Gallavs? Or just Romanize into... Romavs or Slavans or Slomans? What I´m saying is:

Modern cultures should not be the predetermined final product of culture blending in the game, that just limits the game in realistic ending. I mean, if the ultimate two blending cultures in Gaul are Arabian and Danish, that would never result in the name or language French, it would be... Aranish or Danabian or Danarabian or Arabanish! See my point?
No. I even said above that the name would be different. Aranish if you like that. It always depends on the circumstances. But if a small number of Barbaric invadersinvaded some former Roman lands they most likely wouldn't have much of an impact on the resulting culture. If two millions Arab came to France, yes, that would have an impact. But 30.000 invading Old Slavs wouldn't have had much of am impact besides a) the name of the kingdom/culture and b) first names.

But sure, in CK2 terms first names alone would be enough to warrant a separate culture.
 

Erik W

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That is uneccesary for a first realease and could only be made when the mod is entierly complete. Only realistic hybrid cultures need to exist in the beginning. Wouldn't the game take a performance hit too by doing this?
I don´t know about the performance but I do agree with that it is unnecessary with unhistorical hybrid cultures in the first release or two
 

Enlil

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OK, so I've been doing the legions, but there's a bit of a problem. The late empire's legion names often have nothing to do with where they came from. If we are using the "conquer Italia, get Legio I Italica" it seems a bit weird when you invade using Legio IV Italica. Instead, I will change the names to where they come from, so that you actually get Gaulish legions when you conquer Gaul and you actually get an Illyrian legion when you conquer Illyria. It isn't as historically accurate but it means you get legions that make sense, and you can tell what is happening by them, instead of just meaningless names. Enlil, what do you think?
Sounds great!

Oh my goodness, thank you so much!

That's really nice of you, I really love this mod concept.
Thank you!

Soissons could be titular with an Empire of Gaul to create. For the dejure kingdoms I do not know. Should they be taken from the Roman era or from the mods timeframe (as they are in the vanilla game).

The problem is that if Clovis conquers the area, at his death the titles will be dissolved. For the Franks the dejure situation does not matter in this area. At the death of a Frankish leaders his heirs should end up (as said before) with equal amounts of lands and fight for it all a decision to reunite the Franks (or assasinate eachother sa they historically did). By the way is it possible to make it so that the heirs are more likely to assainate eachother and maybe they do not need any kinslayer trait?

Also all of this cultural stuff gave me a bit of a question. For example if the Franks settle in Germany instead of France then germans should be called french today and the french something complettly else. Therefor a melting pot such as Mr. Capiatlist suggested is probably the best solution in my opinion.
I have already posted the Dejure plans for that region.

Speaking of Iran, around 480 Mazdaki heresy rears it head. It'd be nice, if ruling shah had a decision to support it, to simulate Peroz's (Kavad's? My memory is not what it used to be) initial support of the movement.
Seeing how I cant get the unite the Franks decision to work, this might be put off.

That is uneccesary for a first realease and could only be made when the mod is entierly complete. Only realistic hybrid cultures need to exist in the beginning. Wouldn't the game take a performance hit too by doing this?
Don't make me do this!!! (But in response to someone else there already is a Romano-Persian melting pot event.

I don´t know about the performance but I do agree with that it is unnecessary with unhistorical hybrid cultures in the first release or two
That it is.
 

Erik W

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Don't make me do this!!! (But in response to someone else there already is a Romano-Persian melting pot event.

That it is.
Enlil, could you post a list of the cultures and hybrid cultures so that we can see if there are any essentials missing?

Edit: no need, I found the culture file you posted a while back
 
Last edited:

Enlil

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747 - Top 15 Powers:

1 Hunnic Empire
Leader: Khagan Tatra the Great
Culture: Hunnic
Religion: Reformed Steppe

2. Byzantine Empire
Leader: Basileus Konstantios Tarasis IV
Culture: Greek
Religion: Nicene

3. Persian Empire
Leader: Shahanshah Garhad Medayarzade Mordadid
Culture: Persian
Religion: Zoroastrian

4. Armorica
Leader: Ri Budic Breizh the Bold
Culture: Armorican
Religion: Celtic

5. Rajastan
Leader: Samrat Ramachandra Ramachandric III
Culture: Rajput
Religion: Hindu

6. Hispania
Leader: Reiki Egica Balti the Great
Culture: Visigothic
Religion: Arian

7. Arabia Petreae
Leader: Shah Ashraf Abdul-Wahadzade Jizan
Culture: Persian
Religion: Sunni

8. Vandalica
Leader: Piudi Bruni Genseri II
Culture: Vandalic
Religion: Arian

9. Deccan Empire
Leader: Samrat Keishnarao Vakatakas
Culture: Marathi
Religion: Hindu

10. Sweden
Leader: King Ludvig Edvardsen Jute
Culture: Jutish
Religion: Germanic

11. Burgundy
Leader: King Meroverch Meroving II the Cruel
Culture: French
Religion: Arian

12. Hepthalites
Leader: Empress Logda Hepthal the Quarreller
Culture: Bactrian
Religion: Zoroastrian

13. Axumite Revolt
Leader: Azmera Muqurid
Culture: Ethiopian
Religion: Arian

14. Bavaria
Leader: King Chnodomar Vincomalid
Culture: Alamannian
Religion: Arian

15. Axum
Leader: Baccinbaxaba Eremias Zoskales II
Culture: Ethiopian
Religion: Arian

Political Map:

Religious Map:
 

Enlil

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ekorovin

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Sassanids thrown over, Axum on the rise, Visigothic Empire, I like that very much.
 

Erik W

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Alright, I´ve gone over the list of cultures in the file you posted a while back Enlil. You have done a good job for the most part but I think you have overlooked some things. I would suggest:

creating hybrid cultures Romano-Lombard and Romano-Vandal

and creating cultures Ionian and (greek version) Macedonian (as you have Aeolian Greek which died of in the 300s BC)
 

mike the knight

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Joemit

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OK, the Eastern Legions are done. I'll test then upload.
EDIT: OK, so they may be slightly overpowered, some flags are missing and the localisation is all wrong. Oh well, first time. I'll have to fix those up and it will be ready tomorrow.
Edit again: OK, those problems weren't so hard to fix. I'll see if I can get it uploaded now.
There's just two flags I can't get figured out. It's probably just something simple.
OK, first you'll need this for your 00_mercenaries file (Please mess around with it, it is a bit simple):
Code:
roman_legion_composition = {
	levy_size = 12
	heavy_cavalry = 50
	heavy_infantry = 350
	archers = 50
}
And here's the localisations. They're pretty rudimentary, I only started modding yesterday.
Code:
#CODE;ENGLISH;FRENCH;GERMAN;;SPANISH;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_xii_fulminata;Legio XII Fulminata; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_xii_fulminata_adj;Legio XII Fulminata; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
COMES;Comes; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
COMES_FOA;Comes; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_flavia_constantia;Legio II Flavia Constantia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_flavia_constantia;Legio I Flavia Constantia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_isaura_sagittaria;Legio I Isaura Sagittaria; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_iovia;Legio I Iovia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_herculia;Legio II Herculia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_isaura;Legio II Isaura; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iii_diocletiana;Legio III Diocletiana; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_parthica;Legio IV Parthica; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_italica;Legio IV Italica; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_iulia_alpina;Legio II Iulia Alpina; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iii_herculea;Legio III Herculea; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_martia;Legio IV Martia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_felix_valentis_thebaeorum;Legio II Valentis Thebaeorum; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_flavia_theodosiana;Legio I Flavia Theodosiana; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_maximiana_thaebanorum;Legio I Maximiana Thaebanorum; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_flavia_constantia_adj;Legio II Flavia Constantia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_flavia_constantia_adj;Legio I Flavia Constantia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_isaura_sagittaria_adj;Legio I Isaura Sagittaria; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_iovia_adj;Legio I Iovia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_herculia_adj;Legio II Herculia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_isaura_adj;Legio II Isaura; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iii_diocletiana_adj;Legio III Diocletiana; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_parthica_adj;Legio IV Parthica; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_italica_adj;Legio IV Italica; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_iulia_alpina_adj;Legio II Iulia Alpina; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iii_herculea_adj;Legio III Herculea; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_iv_martia_adj;Legio IV Martia; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_ii_felix_valentis_thebaeorum_adj;Legio II Valentis Thebaeorum; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_flavia_theodosiana_adj;Legio I Flavia Theodosiana; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
d_legio_i_maximiana_thaebanorum_adj;Legio I Maximiana Thaebanorum; ; ;; ;;;;;;;;;x
And down the bottom, here's the rest of the files. Please tell me if I missed anything.
View attachment legions for landed_titles.txtView attachment legion flags2.rarView attachment legion history.rar

Yeah, just change around the composition if you want, because at the moment each legion is about 4000 troops.
 
Last edited:

Zusk

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Wonderful world so far in that playthrough, its turning out really interesting!

How did the Huns get so big? Do you have it so they begin with event troops or is there something else?

Did you mean "Chalcedonian" when writing the religion on the picture or did the Nicene religion appear through one of the Schism events?
 

Erik W

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Should a legion only contain 450 troops? That seems a bit underpowered to me. Or is that the actual legion size?
 
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