When should units be considered 'destroyed'?

[Luka]

A point was brought up in the armour rebuild cost debate thread that made me think. If a unit is destroyed in game (i.e. its str is 0) is that not just the fighting elements of the unit? If a unit is not encircled, wont its HQ, logistics, etc sections be preserved and can be outfitted with new recruits?
I mean, how often IRL were units totally wiped out of existence? One thing I do know is that Hitler was obsessed with raising new divisions and not reinforcing the ones that he had.
So, though I know that this is a game and it requires a certian level of abstraction, should units with 0 str really be considered as totally annihilated and unable to be reinforced?

 

[SecondReich]

A point was brought up in the armour rebuild cost debate thread that made me think. If a unit is destroyed in game (i.e. its str is 0) is that not just the fighting elements of the unit? If a unit is not encircled, wont its HQ, logistics, etc sections be preserved and can be outfitted with new recruits?
I mean, how often IRL were units totally wiped out of existence? One thing I do know is that Hitler was obsessed with raising new divisions and not reinforcing the ones that he had.
So, though I know that this is a game and it requires a certian level of abstraction, should units with 0 str really be considered as totally annihilated and unable to be reinforced?

Yes.

 

[Luka]

Yes.

Good answer.
But you see where I'm coming from...don't you?

 

[unmerged(26982)]

Yes.

And what question are you answering "yes" to? There are a few questions in there and your "yes" answer contradicts itself if you answer yes to all of the questions. Please clarify...

 

[SecondReich]

Good answer.
But you see where I'm coming from...don't you?

Yes, but, it would be alright if there was a system similiar to Victoria, where it takes time for a division to conquer a province, and if its small, it would take almost an eternity. Otherwise, some small little division left over would be cutting you off from your supply, and there would be no way to destroy him.

 

[unmerged(27215)]

I think that units which are 'annihilated' should still exist unless incircled, to allow reinforcement.

And in the event that units are incircled, and then destroyed, the leader needs to be eliminated, ie: von Paulus...

 

[HisMajestyBOB]

I think that units which are 'annihilated' should still exist unless incircled, to allow reinforcement.

And in the event that units are incircled, and then destroyed, the leader needs to be eliminated, ie: von Paulus...

If this is the case, then reinforcing has to be much more expensive.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

If this is the case, then reinforcing has to be much more expensive.

That should be true anyway.

But my suspicion is that reinforcement in HoI II might work differently than it does now (although I have absolutely no evidence for this), so I'll withhold suggestions on that front for now...

 

[Luka]

No, I insist czolgosz. Suggest away...

Yes, but, it would be alright if there was a system similiar to Victoria, where it takes time for a division to conquer a province...[snip]

I think there should be a system like this anyway. Or a garrisoning penalty or something. As Germany had to garrison its empire, the larger it got, the more strain. Or something.

 

[unmerged(27215)]

That should be true anyway.

But my suspicion is that reinforcement in HoI II might work differently than it does now (although I have absolutely no evidence for this), so I'll withhold suggestions on that front for now...

I concur that it should be true, and i also think that it could be done.
In another thread there was talk about 'pools', like WiR has. What could be done is that instead of building by the division, you build points. ie: buil 1000 pts worth of PzKpfw III Division materal.

you then make hollow divisions, and load them up.

this could solve the whole problem of brigades/regiments and such, so you could just put in 50pts of PzKpfw III, 25pts of PzG, 10pts of Moterized Inf, and call it a division.

i think someone had this idea already, and i give them credit for it. but i really thought it was a good idea, and it applys to the afore mentioned problem

 

[Shadow Knight]

czolgosz is right, with so little data on how reinforcements will work we can really comment on it too much.

However I would like to see something done with zero Org units. Like they can't move (or if they do nothing but a fraction of their normal speed), except when forced too, until they reach a certain Org level.

 

[unmerged(26876)]

I think that units which are 'annihilated' should still exist unless incircled, to allow reinforcement.

Disagree - but some strength should be returned to the nations Manpower to simulate the redployment of troops from broken and dispanded units after time to recuperate.

And in the event that units are incircled, and then destroyed, the leader needs to be eliminated, ie: von Paulus...

Agree - suggested in another thread on this forum.

 

[SecondReich]

I think that the leader should have a 50-50 chance of being eliminated, because sometimes they survived.