When should I grant independence?

[Vindahl]

A simple question, that someone might help me out with...
I often notice this option, to grant a vassal independence, but why would I do that?

Is there ANY scenario where it would be a good idea?

 

[DunkFunk]

if you have a powerful vassal who has inherited alot of land somehow or even created a king title in your empire and has started an independence faction.

Instead of fighting the faction and potentially them getting alot of free troops release this trouble maker which will probably kill the faction without him and fight him that way.

other then that probably no reason ever.

 

[rk47]

You shouldn't grant independence ever.
For Duchy/County I'd say throw him to the Pope for Piety and Relations bonus.

If it's a kingdom, then yes, perhaps there's a time when you know this guy will not serve you and is a leader of a faction, bringing other super dukes together to revolt. When you know a military action is a waste of resources, it's best to just cut him off from your empire instead.

 

[themunck]

A simple question, that someone might help me out with...
I often notice this option, to grant a vassal independence, but why would I do that?

Is there ANY scenario where it would be a good idea?

If you somehow acquire a problematic vassal on the other side of the map, for example. Can't tell you how many times I've been doing my own thing in Scandinavia only to end up with a barony in the Andes, whose ies are too far away for me to use, and whom I keep disbanding.
It's also useful for roleplaying, of course.
And finally, if you have an independence faction with 1 strong member and a lot of smaller members whom you -don't- want to lose, you can grant independence to the strong vassal, instead of fighting him and losing him -and- the smaller vassals.

 

[Klarum]

Never. Even in the scenario described above you have easy ways to end a plot without loosing land and having to war to get it back . Also if you give independence to a King you will not get a strong claim on the Kingdom so getting the territory back as others are suggesting is a county-by-county, duchy-by-duchy pain in the ***.

Just have your spy plot on the capital of the faction leader and soon the option to force him to leave it will show up. Also you can send gifts to faction members or deal with whatever issue is making them not like you.

With that said I have used the grant independence option in one game where my goal was to spread my House all over the map without direct control. So when I gathered a new kingdom I would give it to a close family member and set them free. It was a quite enjoyable game to see all kingdoms in Europe and East belong to my family after a couple of centuries. Wars were also fun. Even if your own army could not rival the Golden Horde/Ikhanate the fact you can call in 6-10 family Kings made it a blast.

 

[dherki]

Sometimes, if I get a vassal not of my religion who refuses to convert, I grant him independence so I can declare holy war on him...

 

[Vindahl]

If you somehow acquire a problematic vassal on the other side of the map, for example. Can't tell you how many times I've been doing my own thing in Scandinavia only to end up with a barony in the Andes, whose ies are too far away for me to use, and whom I keep disbanding.
It's also useful for roleplaying, of course.
And finally, if you have an independence faction with 1 strong member and a lot of smaller members whom you -don't- want to lose, you can grant independence to the strong vassal, instead of fighting him and losing him -and- the smaller vassals.

How can I roleplay such an event?
I can only see such a scenario if the ruler is generous - but wouldn't it be too much to give away independence? I just give them gifts, at the top of my generous roleplay...
Perhaps if the ruler is insane too?

 

[Klarum]

Sometimes, if I get a vassal not of my religion who refuses to convert, I grant him independence so I can declare holy war on him...

You can just arrest him for being an infidel and take away is title. Why are you complicating things

 

[VeneziaIstanbul]

As Venice, I once inherited a landlocked duke in the middle of Russia.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

Sometimes, if I get a vassal not of my religion who refuses to convert, I grant him independence so I can declare holy war on him...

Yep, this or the strange stranded vassal on the other side of the map you don't want to deal with.

If you're a heretic, you can't free-revoke your parent religion. But you can holy war them. Internal holy wars are also a great way to get rid of unwanted republics, or to create one out of a feudal duchy. You can redistribute titles any way you want to.

 

[Karensky]

If you are NOT trying to blob up and conquer everything, then granting independence to vassals on the other side of the map might be a good idea. Makes it easier to change certain laws, as those far-away vassals will almost always be very angry with you.

 

[JonStryker]

There are many cheesy ways to abuse the grant independence mechanism:

- Grant independence to a duke with only one county. Then attack him to take his land and destroy the duchy. Very helpful to get demesne land and to get rid of duchies. Let's say there is a rebellious duke with one count as vassal. Grant a (landless) duchy to the count, then grant independence to both the duchies. After that attack both end take their land. A landless duchy can be created from an area where either all counties are held by you or all counts are already under some other duke. Especially powerful in combination with the Byzantine Imperial title.

- Getting rid of trouble makers: If there is a powerful faction you have to immediately get rid of and the leader is a minor title holder you can grant him independence. He might even freely join you after you've stabilized the realm. If he doesn't crushing him is also an option. Just make sure to not grant independence to a Merchant Republic or wrong religion / wrong culture people outside of your de jure area. Getting those back is significantly harder.

 

[grumphie]

1. you or a vassel inherited some random county in the middle of asia minor while playing as england. its going to be more troublesome than its worth, and granting independence to it might be less troublesome
2. you won a crusade, but have little intrest in keeping(say) jerusalem as you alrready have too much problems at home to add in infidels wanting your lands. wait until the penalties wear off, and give it to a second son or a nephew.
3. youre roleplaying, and want to(say) divide brittannia in 5 roughly equal parts between you and your brothers for RP purposes.
4. to get rid of troublemakers. that duke constantly nagging you? independence, and de jure war his titles back into the realm.

 

[Rustedness]

There was one particular instance before this was implemented in game where I really wished for it. As the Emperor of Britannia, I conquered most of the scandinavian peninsula from the Golden Horde. I had dukes declaring independence every five minutes (this was before the faction system). Really just wanted to hand the areas off to the extended family and continue inflicting punishment on the Horde.

 

[Delta107]

That's a good question. I think I might grant independence to lands which can't be defended once the hordes come. I am not sure if the Mongols would vassalize them or not.

 

[Incomitatus]

I ran into this recently. Playing as Alania, one starts with one de jure county of Georgia. Georgia will declare war, eventually, to get it back. Much better not to be owning it when that happens.

 

[Manic Eskimo]

If it's a Dejure vassal (and not a king) they should accept vassilization a day after you grant them independence. It's a nice +100 relations modifier as well.

 

[Yeronimo]

It depends on how you play. Currently I'm playing as my own sicilian dynasty and I've wan two holy wars (Jerusalem & Egypt) and had a succesful invasion of England (since William failed). Instead of building an enormous and divided empire I prefered to keep the kingdoms for a couple of years and then grant them (along with independence) to some of my youngest sons. Playing like this means that 4 of the 5 strongest kingdoms are ruled by my dynasty. This gives me several lifelong allies (who always answers my calls) while keeping my own kingdom realtively tiny to avoid issues with factions and such.

 

[Ols]

I ran into this recently. Playing as Alania, one starts with one de jure county of Georgia. Georgia will declare war, eventually, to get it back. Much better not to be owning it when that happens.

No, the better solution is to become stronger that Georgia before your alliance runs out and try to fabricate a claim on the rest of Abkhazia before they attack you. Another, even better solution is to swear fealty to Cumania, get a normal marriage for your son with Anna Terteroba and then press Anna Terteroba's claim on Cumania after the Khan dies. After that, her heir will be your heir's heir and you'll become the Alan King of Cumania. Form Alania instantly, and make it your primary title.

I grant independence to places I really can't defend, titles on the other side of the map and land which is so far flung or peripheral as to be useless. I generally don't care about Mali and Abysinnia and grant them independence if I gain them. I've also granted independence to large amounts of non de jure land as the Holy Roman Emperor when I gained the title accidentally, then lost the title and declared independence myself to try and make my own splinter kingdom with the culture and vassals I actually care about.

 

[Chyll]

How can I roleplay such an event?
I can only see such a scenario if the ruler is generous - but wouldn't it be too much to give away independence? I just give them gifts, at the top of my generous roleplay...
Perhaps if the ruler is insane too?

Or weak, apprehensive, and fearful of conflict.