When is it worth claiming a throne?

[Hashishin13]

From what I've seen most of the time it's just a waste of relations with the target, your royal marriage partners and of your prestige. You get a casus belli when the target is of the same dynasty, but how does it work otherwise?

If there is an heir with a weak claim, does your claim hold on until their dynasty recovers legitimacy or until there is a new king/queen with a good claim?

If a monarch dies with no heir and you are claiming do you instantly get a PU?

 

[LarryLeica]

Claim the throne when the target is juicy, you can win the war easily, and your ruler is young (less than 30). Go to war as soon as you press that claim the throne button. The relations hit to RM partners is easily corrected, but to be on the safe side you should try to keep those RM partners relations maxed.

It is pointless claiming the throne when you do not share dynasty members unless the tooltip says a noble from <your dynasty> will inherit the throne. You are generally just throwing relations away. Also, only when their ruler is old >50.

When the monarch dies with no heir, the tooltip in the diplomacy screen will tell you what will happen. To get the better results keep your prestige high.

 

[Pornek]

It is pointless claiming the throne when you do not share dynasty members

IIRC if you claim throne in that case, someone from your dynasty is going to inherit the throne.

 

[Anthropoid]

Wish there was a ledger page for Dynasties or else a Dynasty map mode.

In my current France game its 1485. I just realized that both Lorraine and Provence are my dynasty (de Valois). Both have solid heirs right now, but it seems sensible for me to RM them both given it creates the possibility to eventually claim their throne.

So when I claim their throne, if it is successful I'll get a PU. If it is 'not successful' I'll get a succession war against rival claimants?

 

[Pornek]

Wish there was a ledger page for Dynasties or else a Dynasty map mode.

In my current France game its 1485. I just realized that both Lorraine and Provence are my dynasty (de Valois). Both have solid heirs right now, but it seems sensible for me to RM them both given it creates the possibility to eventually claim their throne.

So when I claim their throne, if it is successful I'll get a PU. If it is 'not successful' I'll get a succession war against rival claimants?

In that case when they have no heir, it should be successful and you get a PU once the current ruler dies. There shouldnt be a not successful option.

 

[Beagá]

From what I've seen most of the time it's just a waste of relations with the target, your royal marriage partners and of your prestige. You get a casus belli when the target is of the same dynasty, but how does it work otherwise?

If there is an heir with a weak claim, does your claim hold on until their dynasty recovers legitimacy or until there is a new king/queen with a good claim?

If a monarch dies with no heir and you are claiming do you instantly get a PU?

Basically IIRC

1- Claim throne only if you have very high LEgitimacy and Prestige. Pointless claiming a throne if you have 90 Legitimacy and 1 prestige. If France has 99 of both, they WILL put a noble of their house on the throne.
2- In the particular case there is a noble of your house on the country already, only claim throne (again) based on legitimacy and prestige - and if the current king is like, 15 years old, DON´T bother claiming it as 99% time he WILL make a heir before dying (and said heir will never, EVER, die), and thus you just wasted prestige AND made everyone with PU with you pissed.

Bottom line: only bother claiming thrones if you have very high prestige, legitimacy (because those are the factors that determine who has the priority) and a very low risk that the current guy will make a heir with Strong claim.

 

[TheBloke]

This is currently the best single thread for PU/Claim Throne knowledge: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?734409-Stupid-doubt-with-PU

 

[Beagá]

Yeah like you said there the mechanic is a bit obscure, but to simplify in the end it all boils down to prestige and legitimacy, and looking at the king/queen´s age and heir´s age to know whether there is a decent chance that anyone will die and thus you didn´t waste that Claim Throne.

Also, one thing is claiming Throne to have a PU by diplomacy, another is claiming to get the CB, and the situation requires different strategic approaches. Considering how rare the situation appears, oportunities to use the CB should be used ASAP.

 

[AdmRepublic]

If you have high enough prestige you shouldn't need to claim the throne, just the Royal Marriage relation should be enough to put your dynasty on the throne if there is no heir -- right?

 

[TheBloke]

If you have high enough prestige you shouldn't need to claim the throne, just the Royal Marriage relation should be enough to put your dynasty on the throne if there is no heir -- right?

If they don't currently have your dynasty, and you have high(est) prestige, and you don't claim throne, then they will get your dynasty if their current monarch dies heirless.

If they don't currently have your dynasty, and you do claim throne, then you will get a PU with them if their current monarch dies heirless. But you will not get a CB to enforce this, so if they get an heir before monarch's death, you have trashed your relations and prestige for nothing. That's the gamble.

See hauptmann's summary, and the posts following it that add some other cases. That's from the thread I linked a couple of posts above, which I highly recommend everyone reads for details on PU/Claim Throne. It has the most complete information I'm aware of, at least the best info in one single thread.

 

[RadRussian]

I'd say 'never'. As you pointed out, you don't get CB on them so it's a waste of prestige. Unless it's a big country and they have 75 year old ruler.

 

[TheBloke]

I'd say 'never'. As you pointed out, you don't get CB on them so it's a waste of prestige. Unless it's a big country and they have 75 year old ruler.

That's not quite 'never'

But yes it's high cost and usually high risk. I have never yet done it, I've only done so when I could get the CB.

I would definitely risk it for a large nation with a monarch of 65 or over. Doubly so when their monarch is a military leader (they normally always are), and they were currently at war, or I could get them into a war e.g. because they are my ally and will answer a CtA.

 

[Djoums]

So when do you get the CB when claiming throne, is it simply when the target country's ruler is of your dynasty and appears in the alert list ?

 

[TheBloke]

So when do you get the CB when claiming throne, is it simply when the target country's ruler is of your dynasty and appears in the alert list ?

Yes. Follow the link I gave

 

[Beagá]

There is one variable you didn´t include in the calculations, and that is the fact the AI Claims Thrones as well.

Proof? All those sucession wars that pop out of nowhere for player countries. Because suecession wars can ONLY happen when someone claims a throne. If the player didn´t, then, well...

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

There is one variable you didn´t include in the calculations, and that is the fact the AI Claims Thrones as well.

Proof? All those sucession wars that pop out of nowhere for player countries. Because suecession wars can ONLY happen when someone claims a throne. If the player didn´t, then, well...

That isn't proof at all, you can get succession wars without even having a royal marriage as long as you're the same dynasty. I do assume the AI claims thrones, but if you want to prove it you should tag-switch to an ai country when you think he has and see if the option is still available in the diplomacy window.

edit: or just look at their relations for the modifier xD

 

[Beagá]

The game EXPLICITLY states that someone has to claim throne for a sucession war to happen.

 

[TheBloke]

The game EXPLICITLY states that someone has to claim throne for a sucession war to happen.

Then it's lying. Several people have reported getting suddenly pulled into succession wars with no warning, having never claimed the throne. I can't remember the exact thread but I'll link it later when I'm on a computer.

 

[AdmRepublic]

As the ottomas I had two succession wars over the thrones of Kazan and Nogai, where I got a PU and timurids disputed. I didn't even have a royal marriage relation with any of those countries. But I totally bought it, of course Sultan Mehmet enjoyed his reputation as the king of kings, and that it reached all the way over half of asia! There must be some kind of strength relation in there; a country must be much stronger than another. (Kazan looked huge, but its collected provinces were 7 base tax in total... :happy

 

[Beagá]

Then it's lying. Several people have reported getting suddenly pulled into succession wars with no warning, having never claimed the throne. I can't remember the exact thread but I'll link it later when I'm on a computer.

As I said the AI used Claim Throne.

Until a developer states that the AI doesn´t use Claim Throne, it´s the ONLY answer.Just because you don´t see a pop-up saying na AI did it doesn´t mean it does NOT happen.