When is it possible to vassalize a country?

[delpiero1234]

So I am thinking about vassalizing Brunei but I am not sure if it's possible. Since this is Ironman I want to make sure I can actually vassalize them before declaring war on them.
The total base tax of Brunei is 22 and they own 5 provinces. I won't be using any CB since they don't border me.
So is a total of 22 base tax too much for vassalizing Brunei?
I just got a nice event that will increase my stability by +1 but since I am already at +3 I thought why not vassalize some country that I have no borders with without using a CB and then increase stability with said event. Brunei is the only target I can think of right now that I can declare war upon without CB and that I might be able to vassalize.

 

[Choccookies]

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Warfare#Province_cost

It generally isn't a good idea to have stability above 1 though, due to the increasing costs and negative events.

 

[delpiero1234]

It generally isn't a good idea to have stability above 1 though, due to the increasing costs and negative events.

Really? I like being at high stability for increased missionary strength and for the decreased revolt risk. I also need the +3 stability in order to westernize which I plan to do soon.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Warfare#Province_cost

So according to the wiki Brunei would be considered a small country.
5 provinces * 8% = 40% + 22 base tax * 2% = 84%
The 5 provinces give Brunei 1047 Manpower so this increases the score to 85% I believe? Am I right with my calculations? Not sure if I did everything correct or not. I'm not sure how to calculate the trade power score from buildings.

Edit: Brunei has a total of 30.1 trade power from provinces but this was increased by 26% mercantilism. I'm really not sure how to calculate this.

 

[lordelenath]

I generally apply a rule of thump being ~20 base tax as being vassalizeable/annexable in one war. You don't have to do a no-CB war though, just loan them some money, until they default the loan and you'll get a nice, (almost) free CB.

And yes, you can sit on +3 stability but it's highly ineffective, because you pay more adm for each point and you get an increased chance of stability hit events.

 

[delpiero1234]

Well it turned out that the 5 provinces of Brunei cost 158% war score in order to vassalize them. I am not sure why but well this sucks

And yes, you can sit on +3 stability but it's highly ineffective, because you pay more adm for each point and you get an increased chance of stability hit events.

Once I started the westernizing progress I will probably stay at 0 or 1 stability. I think +3 stability is one of the requirements in order to start westernization.

 

[Great One]

The warscore required to vassalize (or annex) is different depending on what CB you use when you declare war.

 

[delpiero1234]

The warscore required to vassalize (or annex) is different depending on what CB you use when you declare war.

I won't be using any CB

I said I will start the war without a proper CB.

 

[Atris]

So I am thinking about vassalizing Brunei but I am not sure if it's possible. Since this is Ironman I want to make sure I can actually vassalize them before declaring war on them.
The total base tax of Brunei is 22 and they own 5 provinces. I won't be using any CB since they don't border me.
So is a total of 22 base tax too much for vassalizing Brunei?
I just got a nice event that will increase my stability by +1 but since I am already at +3 I thought why not vassalize some country that I have no borders with without using a CB and then increase stability with said event. Brunei is the only target I can think of right now that I can declare war upon without CB and that I might be able to vassalize.

out of experience, Brunei, Aceh, Majahapit require 2 wars for vassalization. Malacca is possible in one go

in brunei's case you just take 2 provinces, war them again 5 years later and sell them back their provinces

 

[TheMeInTeam]

http://www.eu4wiki.com/Warfare#Province_cost

It generally isn't a good idea to have stability above 1 though, due to the increasing costs and negative events.

With religious ideas you stand a reasonable chance of getting pushed from +1 to +3 without investing anything, and with Muslim which conflicts with negative events like comets and steroid comets (nobels -1 stab + money or -2 stab) the ability to sit on +3 is even greater, often without trying much.

 

[Mr. Methyl]

With religious ideas you stand a reasonable chance of getting pushed from +1 to +3 without investing anything, and with Muslim which conflicts with negative events like comets and steroid comets (nobels -1 stab + money or -2 stab) the ability to sit on +3 is even greater, often without trying much.

IIRC comets were nerfed as well recently. In my last Brandy playthrough I wanted to get Respected achievement that I had been missing, so when I finally got 100 in prestige and legitimacy (not long with Brandy), I boosted to +3. I then cranked up the speed since that was my major goal in the game, but 200 years later and it really has never been below +2 for very long, though I wouldn't have wasted the points in the first place if I didn't want the Steam ach.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Back on topic, it's really, really frustrating that the game doesn't tell you the base war score of your opponent before declaring. For such a key feature in the game, that's really grating.

 

[Imgran]

The whole warscore system needs to be overhauled.

 

[delpiero1234]

it's really, really frustrating that the game doesn't tell you the base war score of your opponent before declaring

Yes I agree! Especially when I am given the subjugation cause belli I would like to know if I it is possible to vassalize said country..

The whole warscore system needs to be overhauled.

Unfortunately Johan gave us one of his famous "No"s on overhauling the warscore system.

 

[unmerged(811747)]

So according to the wiki Brunei would be considered a small country.
5 provinces * 8% = 40% + 22 base tax * 2% = 84%
The 5 provinces give Brunei 1047 Manpower so this increases the score to 85% I believe? Am I right with my calculations? Not sure if I did everything correct or not. I'm not sure how to calculate the trade power score from buildings.

I think your reading the manpower wrong. If you hover over the province's manpower data, it should show a base value (e.g. 2.0 or 3.0), so times that by 2%

"2% per base kManpower"

So if the manpower base for the province is 3.0, then the province has an additional 6% warscore value.

But yea, I saw the wiki calculation formula and I'm like good grief. So I try to make two wars out of a country, work out the warscores from the peace menu and then make sure the vassalisation score will fall under 100%, once I take a few provinces.

e.g. got a four province england as a vassal last night by taking norfolk and essex in one war, then leaving london (13BT?) and kent (6BT?) for my vassalisation war. i ended up truce breaking, as i wanted to end some royal marriages, and also not have england in the coalition against me (v1.3) for the second war. of course, the coalition grew stronger after that - effectively +45 AE for a four province vassal lol vassal feeding ftw

While the wiki calculation is great to have, the devs should make the warscore visible before war (perhaps show standard warscore cost in the province screen?), given warscore is so limiting to what we can take.

Havent worked out the trade power score yet, give me a week