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1.5 is a total dumpster fire.

ok, to calm your hysterical nerves, the patch makes this game very playable, and I like many of the changes (not 100% all but the general direction is a very good one)

If you want to ease coalitions just reduce the badboy for taking provinces from 15 to 13.5 in the EU4\common\defines.lua

no need to roll on the floor like a child. sorry for my words, but balance issues get treated like the end of the world here lately.

btw. I've had many vassals in my testgame and not one revolted.
Did you guys keep relations high enough with them?
because if the vassals hate you, then it's a good thing they revolt now.
 

rebelde

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If you want to ease coalitions just reduce the badboy for taking provinces from 15 to 13.5 in the EU4\common\defines.lua

no need to roll on the floor like a child. sorry for my words, but balance issues get treated like the end of the world here lately.

If you need to resort to modding to balance the game because Paradox, after 5 major patches, keeps bouncing back and forward never finding the middle ground but still managing to nerf expansion at every patch, then these topics on the forums are justified to me.
There's nothing to do in the game other than expand (WAD as confirmed by Paradox), yet expansion is limited by half a dozen different mechanics. What are you supposed to do, play a war for 3 years than spend a decade at speed 5 to wait for AE to decay and core the 2 provinces you took? Wow what an exiting and fun game.
 

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This, this game is a mess and every patch it's getting worse because Paradox is too focused on releasing DLC every 5 months rather than fixing the broken mechanics. Modding the game to adjust AE and coalitions is the only way to enjoy EU4 really.
Mods are the only way to enjoy any PDS game. Because once you've experienced the bliss that is, say, EU3+, or CK2+, or DH Kaiserreich, or V2 PDM, etc, there's really no going back.

And I wouldn't change a damn thing about it.

These games are great platforms for modders. You can mold them into practically anything you desire. And as long as that holds true and they never stop their dialogue with us ("us" meaning modders, ofc), I'm perfectly fine with PDS the way it is.
 

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Mods are the only way to enjoy any PDS game. Because once you've experienced the bliss that is, say, EU3+, or CK2+, or DH Kaiserreich, or V2 PDM, etc, there's really no going back.

And I wouldn't change a damn thing about it.

These games are great platforms for modders. You can mold them into practically anything you desire. And as long as that holds true and they never stop their dialogue with us ("us" meaning modders, ofc), I'm perfectly fine with PDS the way it is.

The vanilla game should be playable and enjoyable without the need of installing mods. This doesn't mean mods can't expand on the game and make it better, but if the game requires mods to have any sort of fun at all than there's something wrong with the game design.
 

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Every patch of EUIV, and most other PDX games, has been a "total dumpster fire" according to some. Just the points of concern and volume of discussion changes. That is unlikely to be different for 1.6, 1.7, 1.8, etc. Until EUV comes out and we can start the whole process again.

I'm not familiar with other PI games, but EU IV's patch history has been very sour and its complaints are unusually bad...and unusually justified. Very few patches get this kind of reception consistently. Despite that I'm not a big Civ V fan like I was IV, I follow it. It was *trash* on release and steadily got better in its patches and expansions, and the impact on the forum was very observable over time; dissent decreased markedly. Your typical shooter patches barely get noticed by the masses. Patches in things like Starcraft II, while debated and sustaining circular arguments over balance ad nauseum, were and are generally well received...especially when compared to this.

The devs aren't tweaking the game here though, and that's a contributing factor.

They're introducing wholesale changes to core mechanics without anything in the surrounding mechanics that helps those changes make sense (alliance on "great powers" --> great power flip flops like crazy early and is really lenient. That didn't used to matter, but it's diplo-crushing now). That there are no compensating factors for changes like this lend credence to the suspicions that design intent is either unknown or flip-flopping. The ostensible reason for this change in particular is to break up late-game alliance webs, but what it also does is directly double-buff AE (less sustainable alliances to mitigate it) and shatter early game alliances as virtually ANYBODY can temporarily meet the piss-low criteria for "competing world power", even stuff like Bahmanis in AI hands after taking 2 provinces. Horrible relations between AI in droves due to the broken alliances, and the player is forced to hate the AI when it breaks alliances over that. That's...not exactly the end goal the devs described to us. Many mentioned this as an issue in the open beta.

They're making patches surrounding a broken feature (coalitions) that address something about it that is not and never was the central problem with it (AE), something that was pointed out many times since the game's release.

MP still CTDs and de-syncs, something that's virtually impossible to observe with quality multiplayer net code, this around half a year after the game came out. Civ V holds the previous record for long-term poor MP connection issues "that I've observed" at about one year --> is that going to be broken?

And then, with all of this stuff going on, bugs that get reported in open beta like "newly acquired vassal doesn't drag its master to war" makes it through 3-4 beta iterations and straight into an official release, right along with the AI declaring war on nations it physically can't reach.

So yes, this patch will get a fair amount of well-deserved vitriole, as did 1.4 with mid-war adding of protectorates and the complete destruction of AE when what the "anti coalition crowd" repeatedly mentioned was the tedium of *actually beating* coalitions and then getting less than a normal war. This kind of history shows a gross neglect of both sides of that argumentative camp alike.
 

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The vanilla game should be playable and enjoyable without the need of installing mods. This doesn't mean mods can't expand on the game and make it better, but if the game requires mods to have any sort of fun at all than there's something wrong with the game design.
True, but from my perspective it's perfectly playable out-of-the-box. I've never really taken issue with any of the mechanics, beyond some basic design stuff.

Most of my concerns are directed toward moddability, of course, so my view is tilted. I mean, I'm actually rather anticipating Wealth of Nations because it's could tie pretty well into a major mod I've been working on, but a lot of other people have been decrying it.
 

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The coring time problem still isn't fixed though. Like it gets ridiculous near at mid to late game unless you're Italy or the Ottomans.

It's typical to bypass it just by sitting on OE ---> full annex ---> release vassal in most cases. Some nations need a little more planning than that, but that's not atypical.
 

Nobak

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I don't know if I even care anymore. I preordered CoP but have had the game running for a total of 7 minutes since its release; once to try to finish my ongoing 1.3.2 game (turns out I can't because ironman) and once to check somethingorother about the game. All the reported bugs made me lose interest in even trying to play, and quite frankly I am tired of playing every game on a time limit because whatever goal I set and whatever strategy I come up with, to reach it the next patch will wreck it, no questions asked.

Between that and the systematic destruction of player options, I'm not sure if it's even worth hoping for this game to improve anymore.
 

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Lets see what we have so far. A 50:50 split on hate the patch, love the patch and few fanboy personal attacks. Seems like excellent game design to me. To address a few things: I deliberately left off a list of complaints so the thread so it wouldn't be a debate on one those points. The board is full of those and yes one side is making valid arguments while the other mainly consists of I like the game now statements. Yes, I played probably about six hours post patch which I suspect is a lot more than those attacking me. For those registered in 2012 or later, this is how the board behaved during the HOI3 release. A fierce back and forth with a lot of irrational statements on both sides. This was followed by a gradual erosion of arguments caused by a mass exodus from the game. Eventually, the board only consisted of people who loved the game and they quickly overwhelmed any dissenting opinions. So asking for a hotfix before that happens again is perfectly reasonable.
 

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The 50% of forums you're talking about, like you, trashes a global fixing patch (more than 80+ changes, bugfixes etc.) for 2 or 3 elements.
From someone who's playing this game from D1, saying "when is 1.6 coming out" the day after 1.5 has been released is really frustrating. I just think that the half of this forum you're talking about needs to refresh their memory and talk with other gamers. I copypasted the changelog of the latest 3 patches to a friend of mine and this is what let him choose to buy this game. You see the new patch and want to roll back. So i just say, read the changelog once more, since you've nothing to do. But after all i highly suggest just to play the game, and judge by your own. Yeah conquest was maybe more fun in 1.4 without coalitions, but what about the overall experience? You can judge that in 7 hours? I've played 480 hours and still cannot define that, and actually enjoyed every patch, yeah even 1.3.2, because i cared about other things than coalitions.
 

rebelde

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The 50% of forums you're talking about, like you, trashes a global fixing patch (more than 80+ changes, bugfixes etc.) for 2 or 3 elements.
From someone who's playing this game from D1, saying "when is 1.6 coming out" the day after 1.5 has been released is really frustrating. I just think that the half of this forum you're talking about needs to refresh their memory and talk with other gamers. I copypasted the changelog of the latest 3 patches to a friend of mine and this is what let him choose to buy this game. You see the new patch and want to roll back. So i just say, read the changelog once more, since you've nothing to do. But after all i highly suggest just to play the game, and judge by your own. Yeah conquest was maybe more fun in 1.4 without coalitions, but what about the overall experience? You can judge that in 7 hours? I've played 480 hours and still cannot define that, and actually enjoyed every patch, yeah even 1.3.2, because i cared about other things than coalitions.

I can tell you my overall experience was better in 1.1 (newly released game) than it was in all other patches. The game might not have had all the fixes it has now but was still a more enjoyable experience.
 

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Remember, 1.4.1.2 and 1.3.2 are still in the beta menu.

Isn't 1.4.1.2 the first actual beta patch of 1.5? 1.4.1 was the previous official patch I think and it's not in the beta menu.
 

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...Yeah conquest was maybe more fun in 1.4 without coalitions...

More fun? Well, if you don't want challenge then yes. To me it only seemed I'm playing on "very easy" difficulty level. AE penalties and coalitions are the main thing I have wished from 1.5. Good to know the game is again in excellent condition at 1.5. Time to start a new game it seems.
 

aitaituo

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The patch cycle has so far gone even numbered patches come out with a DLC release and odd numbered patches come out 2-4 weeks later for tweaking and bug fixes. So there'll likely be no more patches until Wealth of Nations and given how much open beta testing they did, there probably won't be any hotfixes either.

1.2 had more forum action, and essentially the same main issue. Which is kind of sad that it hasn't been touched at all.

Yeah, there hasn't been this little criticizing of a patch since 1.1.
 

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For those registered in 2012 or later, this is how the board behaved during the HOI3 release. A fierce back and forth with a lot of irrational statements on both sides. This was followed by a gradual erosion of arguments caused by a mass exodus from the game. Eventually, the board only consisted of people who loved the game and they quickly overwhelmed any dissenting opinions.

Yep, that's what happened in HoI3, because the game had very serious issues that were never truly solved, just designed around. Of course there were people who loved those issues with the force of one thousand suns. There are also people who refuse to throw away their PowerBalance bracelets because it makes them feel so much better. People will be people.

Nothing like this happens with CK2 (unless the patch is seriously bad, and I only remember one of those). Because CK2 works and because we know the design philosophy (or just "because there IS a design philosophy").

And yes, you're right about the massive number of people who were flabbergasted with every new patch gradually leaving and only the zealous defenders staying, with the self-confirmation bias working its magic and making their zealotry bigger and bigger as they talk amongst themselves about how wonderful the game is and how right they are in every thing they say. That's been happening since 1.2. By 2.0 probably no one will complain because they just don't care at all about the game anymore (and the Paradox Defense Corps will say "see?, everything's fixed and the game is perfect now! No one complains anymore!").
 

Novacat

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btw. I've had many vassals in my testgame and not one revolted.
Did you guys keep relations high enough with them?
because if the vassals hate you, then it's a good thing they revolt now.

Vassals will only revolt if they are large enough and they are of an advanced enough tech group... I had four vassals, one western, one eastern, one chinese, and one indian. The Indian/Chinese vassals never became disloyal, while the eastern one would occasionally go disloyal (hostile) but never declared independance war. The western vassal would always, instantly, declare independance war as soon as it flipped to hostile, which was a regular basis. All four vassals were of roughly similar size, and the overlord state was 3-4 times bigger than each individual vassal. Relations seemed to matter very little, at least for the western vassal, as it would go hostile even at +100 relations.

To sum it up, vassals rebelling will never, ever be a problem for people who just feed vassals and annex, as the vassals will never get large enough nor will they live long enough for a rebellion to ever happen, this is entirely an issue for people who like to keep permanent vassals around for w/e reason.
 
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unmerged(26686)

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It's always difficult to judge whether the posters on here are a vocal minority or represent a silent majority. I hope it's the former, because I am very happy with 1.5. Sure there are some issues still to be fixed, but it's a huge improvement over 1.4, and I love the greater challenge when expanding.
 

Novacat

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It's always difficult to judge whether the posters on here are a vocal minority or represent a silent majority. I hope it's the former, because I am very happy with 1.5. Sure there are some issues still to be fixed, but it's a huge improvement over 1.4, and I love the greater challenge when expanding.

This patch is both an improvement and a disaster... theres always 9-10 changes that are all improvements, than 1-2 changes that end up being complete 'What the hell were you thinking?!' disasters.