When does Free France stop being a Resistance movement and becomes the French State?

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Attalus

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It would be interesting to know whether subordinate French commanders are usually expected and allowed to officially contradict government policy, or if we assume he did not know, express their opinion in times of war.
I doubt it.
His 18June Appeal is a complete contradiction of the Appeal made by Pétain on the 17th though who said he was asking for an armistice. So De Gaulle knew he was contradicting the government.
 

keynes2.0

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His 18June Appeal is a complete contradiction of the Appeal made by Pétain on the 17th though who said he was asking for an armistice.

His 18th of July appeal asked people to ready themselves to fight on the behalf of France. That isn't a problem for France seeking an armistice. That's only a problem with France seeking to align itself with the Nazis. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the fascists hadn't overthrown France yet then De Gaulle was just appealing to people to keep supporting the government. If the fascists had overthrown France, De Gaulle was appealing to people to keep supporting the government he had sworn to protect against the usurpers.
 

Klausewitz

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His 18th of July appeal asked people to ready themselves to fight on the behalf of France. That isn't a problem for France seeking an armistice. That's only a problem with France seeking to align itself with the Nazis. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the fascists hadn't overthrown France yet then De Gaulle was just appealing to people to keep supporting the government. If the fascists had overthrown France, De Gaulle was appealing to people to keep supporting the government he had sworn to protect against the usurpers.
Read the text of the appeal of June the 18th and then come back and correct your response.
 

Attalus

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His 18th of July appeal asked people to ready themselves to fight on the behalf of France. That isn't a problem for France seeking an armistice. That's only a problem with France seeking to align itself with the Nazis. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If the fascists hadn't overthrown France yet then De Gaulle was just appealing to people to keep supporting the government. If the fascists had overthrown France, De Gaulle was appealing to people to keep supporting the government he had sworn to protect against the usurpers.
Yeah he directly accuses the government of cowardness and asks for people to meet him in London. Yeah it's totally not acting against the wishes of his government :rolleyes:
 

keynes2.0

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Read the text of the appeal of June the 18th and then come back and correct your response.

How about you come back when you can talk about what is literally in the text.

Yeah he directly accuses the government of cowardness and asks for people to meet him in London. Yeah it's totally not acting against the wishes of his government :rolleyes:

This is the text of the speech. It does not contain a direct accusation of cowardice at anyone. You said something about the literal contents of the speech. You were incorrect:

"The leaders who, for many years, have been at the head of the French armies have formed a government. This government, alleging the defeat of our armies, has made contact with the enemy in order to stop the fighting. It is true, we were, we are, overwhelmed by the mechanical, ground and air forces of the enemy. Infinitely more than their number, it is the tanks, the aeroplanes, the tactics of the Germans which are causing us to retreat. It was the tanks, the aeroplanes, the tactics of the Germans that surprised our leaders to the point of bringing them to where they are today.
"But has the last word been said? Must hope disappear? Is defeat final? No!
"Believe me, I who am speaking to you with full knowledge of the facts, and who tell you that nothing is lost for France. The same means that overcame us can bring us victory one day. For France is not alone! She is not alone! She is not alone! She has a vast Empire behind her. She can align with the British Empire that holds the sea and continues the fight. She can, like England, use without limit the immense industry of the United States.
"This war is not limited to the unfortunate territory of our country. This war is not over as a result of the Battle of France. This war is a world war. All the mistakes, all the delays, all the suffering, do not alter the fact that there are, in the world, all the means necessary to crush our enemies one day. Vanquished today by mechanical force, in the future we will be able to overcome by a superior mechanical force. The fate of the world depends on it.
" I, General de Gaulle, currently in London, invite the officers and the French soldiers who are located in British territory or who might end up here, with their weapons or without their weapons, I invite the engineers and the specialised workers of the armament industries who are located in British territory or who might end up here, to put themselves in contact with me.
"Whatever happens, the flame of the French resistance must not be extinguished and will not be extinguished. Tomorrow, as today, I will speak on the radio from London."

So... good luck with that sarcasm buddy.:rolleyes:
 
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Captain Frakas

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France made Peace with Germany in 1940.
Nope, France agreed to an armistice the 22th of June 1940. France never made peace with Germany (albeit it could be argued that the 1990 Treaty on the Final Settlement with Respect to Germany sort of made peace on a juridical point of view).

Then deGaulle went to France and declared that he would continue the war.
No, It was not then, because Ch. de Gaulle made his call the 18th of June 1940.
It was not in France because it was in England where he was send by P. Reynaud, then head of government.
He did not declared that he would continue the war but that France would continue the war.

Problem is, that deGaulle had no standing.
He was not elected, not legitimized and in fact his status as a soldier meant that he had to follow directives from his government. A case could even be made that deGaulle was a traitor at this point.

Ch. de Gaulle was a junior member of the French government send in London by the head of government. That wasn't much, but that's hardly having "no standing". Especially since that as soon as the 10th of July 1940, he had no legal government to follow : this day, Ph. Pétain made an illegal constitutional coup which made him and those in collusion with him "traitors" to use your words.

There is few people here who pretend with some certitudes, while they do not know their subjects, that the Pétain's dictatorship might had been legal. It obviously wasn't: 1. the parliament had no right to give to Pétain dictatorial powers the way it did. 2. Pétain did not respected his dictatorial mandate.
That's as simple as that.

The only legal authority, after the 10th of July 1940, were departments' local councils who should had embodied a temporary congress as long as the Parliament was prevented to meet and to practice its power. Departmental councils however did not done that.

So, "Free France" wasn't much legitimate to represent the still existing Third Republic, but there were no other organizations being more legitimate than it.

In 1945 Free France was one of the United Nations and one of 4 powers sitting at the table when Germany capitulated.
When did the Free French move from traitors and renegades to the legitimate representatives of the French people?

Juridically, the Provisional Government of the French Republic was legitimated with the referendum of the 21st of October 1945.
Factually, as soon as the 3rd of June 1943, the French Committee of National Liberation was the sole organization pretending to represent France and, hence, was legitimated by facts.
 
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