Ie what bombing missions are affected by AA guns in the target province? I'm pretty sure logisitical strikes & strategic bombing are affected; but what about interdiction & air superiority?
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Whenever an enemy air unit is flying over them. It does not depend on the mission.
Thanks! But do the loss rates differ depending on the mission then? It feels like you lose very few air units that are doing air superiority missions over provinces with AA guns.
Good point. 1938 TAC and 1938 FTR and 1940 INT (TAC-3, FTR-1, and INT-4) all have same surface defense (7). Quoting that as its my present situation. 1937 INT (INT-3) have only 6 surface defense. I agree that INT and FTR get far less damage than the bombers... so the difference must be due to the bombers getting extra damage from the units they are bombing.
However, 1937 CAS (CAS-1) who bomb same targets as the TAC-3 generally fare better. However their surface defense is only 4... so it doesn't add up correctly best I can tell. It must be that the CAS far stronger ground attack values reduce combat damage enough so the greater damage of the flak impacting on the CAS weaker surface defense (as is expected) still results in a net damage that favors the CAS versus the TACs.
So, CAS take more flak damage but less damage from enemy they bomb = less total damage than TACs.
INT and FTR usually only get flak damage = less damage than the bombers.
Not sure if right, but seems to make sense once both causes of damage are included.
However, in actual play, I can't even notice any damage on the INT and FTR - meaning the flak must be pretty non-effective? But when bombers attack factories instead of troops, they still suffer very much damage... and that can only be from flak I would guess. But the INT and FTR escorting them and subjected to identical flak (and for greater time as the INT and FTR always depart target area later) get no noticeable damage. That doesn't add up.
So, excellent question... and not satisfactorily explained AFAIAC.
I would also say that Pang's statement does not seem fully correct. IIRC, AA is only active when aircraft pass over AA, and not active at all when planes who entered AA province then stay there and so then are flying over the AA (while bombing or patrolling). At least, one only sees the AA flak smoke whenever aircraft first pass over the AA, or only when aircraft first enter province. There is no active AA all the hours the aircraft are "flying over the province" or upon departing province (based on the visual representation of that flak smoke).
However, 1937 CAS (CAS-1) who bomb same targets as the TAC-3 generally fare better. However their surface defense is only 4... so it doesn't add up correctly best I can tell. It must be that the CAS far stronger ground attack values reduce combat damage enough so the greater damage of the flak impacting on the CAS weaker surface defense (as is expected) still results in a net damage that favors the CAS versus the TACs.
So, CAS take more flak damage but less damage from enemy they bomb = less total damage than TACs.
INT and FTR usually only get flak damage = less damage than the bombers.
Not sure if right, but seems to make sense once both causes of damage are included.
However, in actual play, I can't even notice any damage on the INT and FTR - meaning the flak must be pretty non-effective? But when bombers attack factories instead of troops, they still suffer very much damage... and that can only be from flak I would guess. But the INT and FTR escorting them and subjected to identical flak (and for greater time as the INT and FTR always depart target area later) get no noticeable damage. That doesn't add up.
So, excellent question... and not satisfactorily explained AFAIAC.
I would also say that Pang's statement does not seem fully correct. IIRC, AA is only active when aircraft pass over AA, and not active at all when planes who entered AA province then stay there and so then are flying over the AA (while bombing or patrolling). At least, one only sees the AA flak smoke whenever aircraft first pass over the AA, or only when aircraft first enter province. There is no active AA all the hours the aircraft are "flying over the province" or upon departing province (based on the visual representation of that flak smoke).
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Bombing a port with heavy AA usually results in heavy damage on the planes. That could of course also come from AA of the bombed fleet. Your observations about CAS are unexpected. IRL static AA was aimed for high altitudes. CAS however are the opposite, they need to fly low to hit precisely. AA brigades of land units however aimed at those lower altitudes to keep the enemy at distance.
Well, in my campaigns I would judge that the most damaged air units if conducting interdiction are the TACs. But - as they have different target than the CAS - any comparison is really just a guess.
But when discussing attacking fleets in ports, then my CAS, TAC and NAV all have identical target. Unfortunately, the only accurate statement I can make is that every aircraft type takes so much damage that it becomes necessary to set mission cancellation as low as 10% just to keep some amount of air force capable of bombing. Hence, I can make absolutely no statement about who might be getting damaged most then.
It is definitely the ship AA doing most of the damage. A port strike on an empty port that has only its land based AA inflicts comparatively little damage to the bombers - basically non-noticeable in the course of missioning such battles. This does happen frequently when enemy fleet leaves port, but player's bombers still bomb the port 1 more time anyway (because of so many other things going on same time).
Anyway, UK provincial AA is only up to 6 in some southern ports by late 1939. I have tried several times to first bomb out the AA; and then the fleet. It is a losing proposition compared to hitting only the fleet - even if ground AA is very high - because enemy repairs the knocked out AA rather quickly. So your bombers aren't even fit to attack anything more once the ground AA is zeroed.
The real trick is Germany having 4 NAVs to start this endeavor with. But because of the "accelerated conquest goals" I only had 2 NAVs in their own half-stack to fly with the full stacks of CAS and TACs. Well, that I learned, incurs a whole new problem: The NAV go for the fleet while all the CAS (8) and TACs (4) hit the port only - so resulting in the brand new NAVs being totally trashed after only one bomb run. It needs mixing one NAV with 3 TAC in two of the stacks, and then adding the 2 CAS stacks to get the 16 varied bombers to work together. Just one of those small "paradoxes" this game is full off to keep things challenging.
But while on the topic, there is actually a very long list why this accelerated conquest seems to be highly inefficient. So much is wrong - bombing fleets before proper tech achieved being just one example. Most of the problems are with the techs. The game seems not designed to be doing other than Poland in 1939, France in 1940, SU in 1941; and then German player is supposed to lose, isn't he?
I am guessing, but I think more and more that the "proper time" for Sea Lion is 1940 - soon after Vichy is achieved and the French provinces are repaired.
As regards USA, seems letting their fleets come near Brest is far easier way to destroy them using either U-boats, NAVs... or German CVs if that will be the choice. Probably an invasion of America should wait until the USN is mostly eliminated. However, will be trying it MJF's way cause that is what is happening.
But when discussing attacking fleets in ports, then my CAS, TAC and NAV all have identical target. Unfortunately, the only accurate statement I can make is that every aircraft type takes so much damage that it becomes necessary to set mission cancellation as low as 10% just to keep some amount of air force capable of bombing. Hence, I can make absolutely no statement about who might be getting damaged most then.
It is definitely the ship AA doing most of the damage. A port strike on an empty port that has only its land based AA inflicts comparatively little damage to the bombers - basically non-noticeable in the course of missioning such battles. This does happen frequently when enemy fleet leaves port, but player's bombers still bomb the port 1 more time anyway (because of so many other things going on same time).
Anyway, UK provincial AA is only up to 6 in some southern ports by late 1939. I have tried several times to first bomb out the AA; and then the fleet. It is a losing proposition compared to hitting only the fleet - even if ground AA is very high - because enemy repairs the knocked out AA rather quickly. So your bombers aren't even fit to attack anything more once the ground AA is zeroed.
The real trick is Germany having 4 NAVs to start this endeavor with. But because of the "accelerated conquest goals" I only had 2 NAVs in their own half-stack to fly with the full stacks of CAS and TACs. Well, that I learned, incurs a whole new problem: The NAV go for the fleet while all the CAS (8) and TACs (4) hit the port only - so resulting in the brand new NAVs being totally trashed after only one bomb run. It needs mixing one NAV with 3 TAC in two of the stacks, and then adding the 2 CAS stacks to get the 16 varied bombers to work together. Just one of those small "paradoxes" this game is full off to keep things challenging.
But while on the topic, there is actually a very long list why this accelerated conquest seems to be highly inefficient. So much is wrong - bombing fleets before proper tech achieved being just one example. Most of the problems are with the techs. The game seems not designed to be doing other than Poland in 1939, France in 1940, SU in 1941; and then German player is supposed to lose, isn't he?
I am guessing, but I think more and more that the "proper time" for Sea Lion is 1940 - soon after Vichy is achieved and the French provinces are repaired.
As regards USA, seems letting their fleets come near Brest is far easier way to destroy them using either U-boats, NAVs... or German CVs if that will be the choice. Probably an invasion of America should wait until the USN is mostly eliminated. However, will be trying it MJF's way cause that is what is happening.
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