Wheeled light tanks

[Nerfav]

I have just read an interesting article about the wheels/tracked debate, and it could be interesting to add an option when creating a light tank variant to put wheels or caterpillar tracks.

Obviously, the game has been designed around the idea of tracked light tanks, only the wheeled option would add bonus/malus. The wheels last longer and cost less than caterpillar tracks, allow to go faster, but can be only used on the light tanks (at that time) and have a harder time in bad conditions (snow, mud). It could be translated by a speed bonus, a cheaper production, less supply consumption and maybe a more reliable tank, while having even harsher malus in forests and mountains.

 

[jcd000]

Since off-road ability would be severely impaired, wouldn't it be logical to give a big malus on low infra provinces for wheeled tanks?
This should go on top of every other terrain malus. If so i would argue against modifying the terrain modifiers further.

 

[TheCrimsonMajor]

Forgive my ignorance, but in the game's time period, what is the difference between a wheeled light tank and an armored car? Is there a significant difference?

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Forgive my ignorance, but in the game's time period, what is the difference between a wheeled light tank and an armored car? Is there a significant difference?

The last time I queried here, the answer was that wheeled = AC, tracked = tank.

 

[linkeagleandzen]

Forgive my ignorance, but in the game's time period, what is the difference between a wheeled light tank and an armored car? Is there a significant difference?

IIRC, tanks have had proper chassis and treads since even before WWI. It doesn't make sense for there to be armoured truck-tanks at this time in history. There were armoured trucks, but they lacked turrets and were used mostly for carrying troops. They were allowed to have wheels rather than treads because they are far faster and lighter than tanks.

I have just read an interesting article about the wheels/tracked debate, and it could be interesting to add an option when creating a light tank variant to put wheels or caterpillar tracks.

Obviously, the game has been designed around the idea of tracked light tanks, only the wheeled option would add bonus/malus. The wheels last longer and cost less than caterpillar tracks, allow to go faster, but can be only used on the light tanks (at that time) and have a harder time in bad conditions (snow, mud). It could be translated by a speed bonus, a cheaper production, less supply consumption and maybe a more reliable tank, while having even harsher malus in forests and mountains.

I'm pretty sure there's just a reason that historically nobody puts wheels on tanks and that's because you can't put that much weight on steel wheels and expect it not to sink into the terrain. And then if they're wide rubber wheels that won't sink as easily, they'll be horribly susceptible to gunfire and excessively expensive at the time.

Wheels on tanks just don't makes sense, either they entirely eliminate the mobility of your "mobile fortress" or they add on a glaring vulnerability on a relatively slow-moving target.

 

[Cowsnipe]

Only real wheeled tank of the era that was mass produced was the BT-7 that could run wheeled, but it was still primarily tracked

 

[Roostergod]

late war there were some armored cars that had armor & guns equivalent to early war light tanks, like the sd.kfz puma, ba-11, and m8 greyhound

 

[Heruure]

late war there were some armored cars that had armor & guns equivalent to early war light tanks, like the sd.kfz puma, ba-11, and m8 greyhound

Late war? Armored cars had armor and guns like early war light tanks 10 years before late war.
Landsverk L180 from 1933 had 10-15mm frontal armor (similar to Panzer 2).
They had 37mm AT guns or 20mm autocannons (Panzer 2 had 20mm autocannon)
They could reach 80 km/h (Panzer 2 could reach 40)

 

[Moriartiy]

I think by definition a tank had to have tracks with wheels its an armored car even armed by a 120 mm cannon

 

[Frosted Vert]

Wheeled AFVs have been around longer than tracked. Armoured cars and the like have already been mentioned.

AFVs with high calibre guns like the AMX-10RC and the B1 Centauro came about much, much later than the timeline HoI IV is set in.

 

[Kovax]

The BT-7 is probably the only WWII example of a "wheeled tank" I can think of, and it wasn't designed to fight that way, just as a cheap and fast means of moving it on roads. Once at the destination, the tracks were reinstalled for off-road use in combat.

On the other hand, most light tanks of the late '30s weren't really armed with anything more than what could be carried by an armored car. In most cases, both for armored cars and light tanks, it was either multiple machineguns, a 20mm fast-firing cannon, or a somewhat larger gun (25-45mm) with serious loading or recoil issues due to shoehorning an oversized gun into a tiny turret. Anything larger on either didn't occur until fairly late in the war, when the "light" tanks and armored cars weighed as much as, or more than, the pre-war medium tanks. I'm pretty sure that an 8-wheeled SdKfz. 234 /2 "Puma" armored car, or the 75mm wheeled tank destroyer variant, easily outweighed most pre-war light tanks.

 

[AzrailReyiz]

If they add, It will good.

 

[ELPhantomII]

I thought a wheeled tank would be classified as a tank destroyer.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I thought a wheeled tank would be classified as a tank destroyer.

Genuinely curious; what gave you the idea?

 

[ELPhantomII]

Because years ago I read that a tank had to specifically be enclosed (completely protecting the crew), on treads, and (until recently) had a rotating turret. If it didn't meet those criteria, then it was a tank destroyer.

 

[Kovax]

Because years ago I read that a tank had to specifically be enclosed (completely protecting the crew), on treads, and (until recently) had a rotating turret. If it didn't meet those criteria, then it was a tank destroyer.

I don't think that's an accurate set of conditions, because a horse-drawn wagon does not have a fully enclosed crew compartment, is not on treads, and does not have a rotating turret, but we don't call it a Tank Destroyer. An Armored Car may be used in a Tank Destroyer role, but it's generally still called an AC. I do take note that your distinctions between Tank and TD apply in most cases of what are commonly called tanks versus tank destroyers: US TDs having both tracks and rotating turrets, but open topped turrets, German TDs either not being fully enclosed (JagdPanzers) or else lacking a turret (PanzerJaegers), and various other countries fielding machines which meet one or two conditions to be considered a tank, but not all three.

[ Note - post war "Sergeant York", fully enclosed, fully tracked, rotating turret, but it's armed with twin AA guns instead of AT, so it's neither a tank nor a TD. ]

 

[SchwarzKatze]

IMO the criterion of TD should be, "disproportionally large gun, to the extent that the gun has to sacrifice protection or rotation to fit the chasis."

 

[Kovax]

IMO the criterion of TD should be, "disproportionally large gun, to the extent that the gun has to sacrifice protection or rotation to fit the chasis."

Make that "disproportionally large AT gun.....", and you might have a winner.

 

[ELPhantomII]

I don't think that's an accurate set of conditions, because a horse-drawn wagon does not have a fully enclosed crew compartment, is not on treads, and does not have a rotating turret, but we don't call it a Tank Destroyer. An Armored Car may be used in a Tank Destroyer role, but it's generally still called an AC. I do take note that your distinctions between Tank and TD apply in most cases of what are commonly called tanks versus tank destroyers: US TDs having both tracks and rotating turrets, but open topped turrets, German TDs either not being fully enclosed (JagdPanzers) or else lacking a turret (PanzerJaegers), and various other countries fielding machines which meet one or two conditions to be considered a tank, but not all three.

[ Note - post war "Sergeant York", fully enclosed, fully tracked, rotating turret, but it's armed with twin AA guns instead of AT, so it's neither a tank nor a TD. ]

Well, of course I left out that it had to be self-propelled and carry a heavy primary tank gun. But what I meant that if it could be mistaken for a tank, then those conditions that I said were the identifying features (or lack thereof). Anyway, I'm no expert on the subject, so I was just stating how I thought tanks and tank destroyers were distinguished.