Whats your opinion in the tech tree ?

[Metaluser]

Im totally honest here and id really like to know other guys opinion on this. Im not excited about the "tech tree" at all. There is not a single technology im happy to see when it pops up.
Examples:
The engineering tree is a huge dissapointment for me. Once u have weapon 1 you basically have to take weapon lvl 2 coz otherwise you will never get weapon lvl 3 etc. Why are there even weapon levels instead of a bunch of different weapons with advantages/disadvantages ? I really dont get this. That goes for all weapons / shields / armor /ship types / buildings basically everything.
The social tree is even worse having to choose between tile clearer a or tile clearer b is just extremly boring.

I had so many high hopes for the tech system but for me it turned out to be the worst/boring system of all my 4x games tbh. Basically only in the early game u have 2-3 decisions and thats it and even thats not true (i choose to not take colony ship first; got it after 20 years again...) . Otherwise its everytime just the next lvl of something and u cant even skip a level.
Why not implement a system in which you really could not take some techs after you constantly choose no to pick them. Which scientist would even come up with the same idea 10 times and get a "no" from his boss and ask for the 11th time. A system in which u could develop certain paths very fast at the cost of other parts ? For example why arent there any additional sections for my ships researchable ? This way i might get one more shield/weapon for my corvettes so i might go heavy on small ships. I think there are hundreds of good ideas that one could implement. But right now i basically always (have to) pick the next weapon lvl / shield lvl because i never know when its popping up again. I played a bunch of multiplayer and once your opponent has the same number of ships but lvl 3 vs your lvl 1 weapons you are doomed and since its doomstack vs doomstack only, you will never get the chance to get the tech from his fleet.

Conclusion (for me): Great Idea. Current implementation is a huge dissapointment

 

[Fourthspartan56]

I couldn't disagree more. Tech trees are boring, predictable, unrealistic, and generally awful. Good on Paradox for trying something new that is IMO far better than any other 4x games tech system out there.

 

[RedPearlA]

The tech tree and the game is not good at giving everyone a balanced nation/choices. The tech tree is awesome at making asymmetrical gameplay/story.

 

[Metaluser]

The only thing that changes for me are the times in which i pick the same technologies. For me that has nothing to do with making a decision. Its not exciting at all. And dont get me wrong since you obviously did. I dont want to change the system. I want to change the technologies available for the player since 90% of the techs are only lvl2-5 of everything you already have. I dont even care about balanced choices constantly. But currently i dont see the fun in choosing the next level of the same thing over and over again. And after that upgrading everything in huge click fest.

 

[LordMagus]

I've been thinking hard about a tech overhaul. There would be a limited amount of technology you get access to, and to get more you need to get it through conquest or science sharing, or espionage.

The techs that pop up depend both on your scientists and your tech usage, so if you equip lots of shields you're more likely to get shield technology. The "randomness" can also be offset by accepting a debuff to your science income that allows you to choose a tech category to focus on. This simulates government devoting extra funding and manpower to an area of science that doesn't have as many experts.

And by researching the same category for a number of years, you get a bonus to research speed for that category. Also, unique techs might be available from surveying planets and allow you to choose what to focus on. So you find a unique material on a planet, and you can either focus on research to help with computation, or in energy production etc.

While techs might look the same, there is a weighting on the components they might unlock. So armour 5 doesnt unlock the same armour piece for each empire. The reason for this is that no two cultures progress the same technologically and they have different perspectives about the world.

While this puts a bit more to chance (weighted) this adds additional motivation for diplomacy and conquest. And an espionage system that gives you the opportunity to get superior technology from other empires. Even pre-FTL species might emerge with tech equivalent to yours, because they have a scientific culture.

 

[Strigoi Tyrannus]

I remember when the game had not come out yet and i was reading all the DDs and they wrote about the tech system not being a typical tree, but more like a "deck of cards" where you would get to pick a technology from 3 randomly selected cards. That sounded awesome and I thought that in this game there's going to be technologically very diverse empires, which would follow very different paths. Now you actually just get 3 choices from different branches and this actually makes empires even more of the same: as you can't research a tech from the branch you want, you can't focus on anything specific and you always have to choose specific techs when they arrive, as you don't know when you're gonna get them again. So it's actually just a tech tree, but the options are hidden. Sure there are unique techs too, but mostly it's just climbing up the tree.
What I think the system needs: More unique techs and paths that block other paths, or at least makes it more difficult to get the techs from an "opposing branch". For example there could be different kinds of reactors like ones which give very much energy, but could have a chance of being deactivated occationally, or a risk of explosion, and then a safe one, which would not give that much power. This kind of differentiation could be part of pretty much all of the game mechanics (ship types, weapon types, mineral production, border growth, etc.) Then the empires would actually feel more different and unique.
Sorry for being somewhat unclear, but I find it very hard to explain my thought's in a clear and understandable way, but I hope you got my idea. Time to return to my galaxy ->

 

[Cagliostro]

I sort of wish that instead of scientists having specific tech bonus (like 'voidcraft +10%') you had the ability to prioritize certain types of tech (like 'i want to work on statecraft, give me more of those techs').

 

[LordMagus]

I sort of wish that instead of scientists having specific tech bonus (like 'voidcraft +10%') you had the ability to prioritize certain types of tech (like 'i want to work on statecraft, give me more of those techs').

I share that wish. Though I think there should be a penalty to research speed in that area until you have enough experts in that field. Basically trying to simulate real world technological progress.

 

[henzington]

I like the tech system because there is no one perfect way to tech up. It can lead to interesting asymmetrical wars in multiplayer. I will say I miss the extra tech choices when I don't play a science directorate.

 

[praftd]

I love the randomness to the tech in Stellaris. I hate tech trees because there is ALWAYS a best path. And I HATE that. Stellaris forces tech diversity, at least early game.

The biggest problem is that there isn't enough diversity or randomness, not the opposite. There needs to be more paths that are completely unique.

 

[Murmeldjuret]

I also think the system is really interesting, but suffers from a lack of techs. You can basically be done with all important techs after 60 years, meaning a tech empire can be done with all tech trees by midgame, which feels wrong. And repeatable techs are not that interesting. I usually play with a whole bunch of mods, and they also run into the problem sooner or later. A tech lead is not that effective once you hit top tech since the ratio of tech to power of repeatable are really low except for a few. After 100 years, decent tech nations start to get tier 5 tech too, and that means that they will be largely equivalent to tech nation, meaning the only difference is +10% of some modifiers for tech nation. After 150 years everyone is roughly identical except for their % modifiers. Sure, some techs are ethos locked, but a lot of they give can just be teched with repeatable for higher cost.

The only meaningful tech that not everyone will get eventually is crystal plating, and you need to fight and salvage someone that has equipped it to get it. If you also can't participate in FE crushing, you will need to salvage their tech from someone that did. But neither of these are due to the tech tree layout, only what you can salvage.

The only distinctive feature is that you can't make strategies that rely on certain tech paths, since there might actually not be drawn in that order. Every tech you have to make a choice instead of like in Civ5 you lock in the first 15 techs because you already have the early game planned out. I think this makes for a better game. Though beyond the early game it will have minimal impact as even all rare techs eventually get drawn. Some really rare techs might take time and still be varyingly impactful late-game, like psionics for materialists or jump drives, but overall there will be little difference after 100 years.

 

[LordMagus]

You can basically be done with all important techs after 60 years, meaning a tech empire can be done with all tech trees by midgame, which feels wrong.

Wait what? ALL the important tech by 2260? 0.o Haven't ever done that.

 

[Murmeldjuret]

Wait what? ALL the important tech by 2260? 0.o Haven't ever done that.

Tier 5 weapons, shield, and reactors. Top physicslab, sensors, engine, and warp, and a few repeatable core planets+.
They have rebalanced things a bit, but democratic fanatic spiritualists could easily get frontieroutposting tech goodness. That +20% tech from happiness was a bit crazy. That and keeping low planet count and massive borders. It starts out kind of weak, but when you hit enough tech to protectorate it got silly.
It will never work in multiplayer since people get ticked off after your fifteenth frontier outpost, but it works ok on hard AI. Also needs a start that is not boxed in, so don't rely on it getting Zero point by 2255 every game.

Even if you get bad starts you can probably get to tier 4 at this point. Less crazy builds in a more balanced game can reliably get Zero Point by 2270-2280, so I should probably not have used 60 years as an example, since that is for older versions of the game.

 

[Randwarf]

To fix the tech deck, we need to add more techs and more exclusive branches, where you can't get both of them, only one

EDIT: there is already a suggestion tread for it https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/exclusive-techs.999151/

 

[LordMagus]

Tier 5 weapons, shield, and reactors.

I find armour to be more important than shields. And what about unlocking cruisers and battleships? Unlocking best weapons means getting both kinetic artillery and plasma cannons. Those seem to be among the important tech, and getting them by 2260 sounds unrealistic.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

I sort of wish that instead of scientists having specific tech bonus (like 'voidcraft +10%') you had the ability to prioritize certain types of tech (like 'i want to work on statecraft, give me more of those techs').

Well, that is more or less what the scientist traits do right now. You get a 1.25 (25%) chance multiplier for all* techs related to the trait of the scientist in charge.

(* There are some exceptions, both with higher and lower impact)

 

[LordMagus]

Well, that is more or less what the scientist traits do right now. You get a 1.25 (25%) chance multiplier for all* techs related to the trait of the scientist in charge.

(* There are some exceptions, both with higher and lower impact)

Though getting the scientist with the affinity you want seems completely random. I think what might be interesting is being able to choose a category and paying for it with with a science debuff that represents your lack of expertise in that category.

 

[Xoatl]

I think it would add a lot to the game if there were more techs, more locked behind ethos changes or Ascension perks or even type of government. More one off techs as well as more repeatables. I agree there are so many ideas you can implement. But I like this tech card system and I think it's something that would be better suited with a large variety of cards, tons of uniques locked away behind different choices you make. To make it fair you can lock the construction of buildings from these ethics techs to having that ethic active so people don't game the system. Also would like to see some way to have custom tech starts. Everyone already starts with a bunch of basic techs. Let the player add more or remove them with a points system similar to how picking genetic traits work.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

I thought the card pull system sounded great at first, but upon actually thinking about it, it's a downgrade from a tech tree.

Tech trees, by their very nature, lend themselves to long-term, meaningful decision making. The card pull system throws that out the window - instead of laying out long-term plans, you have to make a new, largely independent decision each time the cards are dealt. Yes, there is still planning involved, but it looks like "hmm, I should probably take these 2 or 3 techs next whenever they pop up" instead of "I'm going to plan my research in a particular, careful fashion from the beginning of the game, and use this to enact a particular strategy which relies upon this careful, systematic planning".

 

[Murmeldjuret]

I find armour to be more important than shields. And what about unlocking cruisers and battleships? Unlocking best weapons means getting both kinetic artillery and plasma cannons. Those seem to be among the important tech, and getting them by 2260 sounds unrealistic.

Not when tier 5 shield corvettes beat a same fleetcap battleship mixed fleet every fight. Battleship tech is also relatively cheap and likely to be drawn. In my experience, by the time you get Warp III you already have several tier 6 stations. If you focus tech battleships, you can have them earlier than 2260, even for non-tech empires.

To fix the tech deck, we need to add more techs and more exclusive branches, where you can't get both of them, only one

EDIT: there is already a suggestion tread for it https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/exclusive-techs.999151/

Great minds think alike ^^

I think it would add a lot to the game if there were more techs, more locked behind ethos changes or Ascension perks or even type of government. More one off techs as well as more repeatables. I agree there are so many ideas you can implement. But I like this tech card system and I think it's something that would be better suited with a large variety of cards, tons of uniques locked away behind different choices you make. To make it fair you can lock the construction of buildings from these ethics techs to having that ethic active so people don't game the system. Also would like to see some way to have custom tech starts. Everyone already starts with a bunch of basic techs. Let the player add more or remove them with a points system similar to how picking genetic traits work.

I've seen trait point mods successfully add techs. Though for there to be a different tech point would require work from pdx. I don't know what choices would make sense at this point either. If you want something like robot level of tech, there aren't many equivalent options. Sensor is interesting as it makes you survey faster. WeaponII might be good if you plan to be a warmonger, and starting with solar panels is also interesting, especially if you get it pre-built on your home station.