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Yakman

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lawkeeper said:
@Xanthippus & Wasa

Off course it's a bug. But a display bug only, according to Economy FAQ.

And I repeat : it's not February's income, but January's. Financial Summary shows last month's financial situation, not current month's. ;)

And I always depicts it as the monarch giving presents to his childrens, for new year, and awarding gifts to his underlings. :D
i don't believe that. where does my money go?
 
Feb 12, 2004
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Yakman said:
i don't believe that. where does my money go?
Part to tech investments, part to treasury, like usual. Only the display is wrong, not the income. :)
 

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Maybe its as simple as this;

February is 2 days shorter hence you get lower monthly income? :confused:
 
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Lady Europa said:
Maybe its as simple as this;

February is 2 days shorter hence you get lower monthly income? :confused:
Do people never read the full thread ? :rolleyes:

1. It's January's financial situation, as the Financial Summary always shows previous month's situation.

2. It's a display-bug ; the income is right.


:rofl:
 

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You may be all right. It is a display bug, the financial situation refers to January income, but happens in february. My opinion is that it happens because the number of days enters the calculation. February has 30 real days, but displays 28 for cosmetic purposes (it has two first of February, and two 15th of February). Therefore it may display only 28/30 of the real financial values for January. This is a 6.66% less than it should be, which seems right to me.

By the way, this calendar of 30 days per month, means that we are being cheated 5.25 days per year by Paradox and the game has 5.8 years less than it claims. Also, summer and winter should change their dates gradually, going around the year in a little over 69 years.
 

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I only recently noticed this. If you have the slider set to about break even it shows a loss of several ducats for January and February if you hover the pointer over the total on the top bar BUT your cash total doesn't actually go down. So it is just a display bug (as has been repeatedly said ;) )
 

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Fodoron said:
[...]
By the way, this calendar of 30 days per month, means that we are being cheated 5.25 days per year by Paradox and the game has 5.8 years less than it claims.
[...]
On the other hand you get 10 days (Oct 5th-14th 1582) for free!
 

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But... but... they're stealing people's birthdays!
 

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Wooster said:
But... but... they're stealing people's birthdays!
Errr no, in-game you are born on a different day and you age slightly faster, so you will end up passing out with about one year more that you really have (ie. you think you lived 71 years, but you only lived 70).
 

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Shhhh. I'm an uneducated peasant.
 

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lawkeeper said:
Do people never read the full thread ? :rolleyes:

1. It's January's financial situation, as the Financial Summary always shows previous month's situation.

2. It's a display-bug ; the income is right.


:rofl:
edited to remove font sizing
1. Large type (shouting) doesn't make you right, no matter how frustrated you are.

2. You aren't correct regarding what the original poster was discussing. This may be because you didn't really understand what he was talking about.

3. The issue under discussion does not involve the Financial Summary screen. That sidebar window always accurately reflects the prior month's income and expenditures, as has been noted by lawkeeper.

4. The issue under discussion is the incorrect calculation of anticipated income for the current month displayed in the tooltip that pops up when you hover your pointer over the slider marked "To Treasury" in the Budget sidebar window. If you keep that tooltip open while the year goes by, you will notice a relatively minor dip in anticipated income during the month of February. After March arrives, the dip in anticipated income stops showing, and a review of the Financial Summary for February will show that it didn't happen, anyway.

5. Because the screen at issue is the display of anticipated revenue, (pay attention here, lawkeeper) it has nothing to do with January, and everything to do with February.

6. I have assumed from the moment I noticed this annoying issue (so long ago I can't even recall if it was true of the game as originally shipped, or arrived with one of the updates) that it is related to the fact that February has fewer calendar days, even though in EU 2 this is compensated for by the game when it repeats the 14th and the 28th. In other words, whoever coded the tooltip box did so in such a way that the calculation incorrectly under-anticipates income from some source, probably by reducing it to 93.3% of what will actually be derived. I haven't ever bothered to determine exactly what is being under-estimated, given that it's only a tooltip error, and never actually effects the income received for the month. I suppose if someone bugged the gods that be hard enough, they might fix it; personally, I consider it sloppy coding, one of the more unfortunate hallmarks of the game as shipped. :(
 
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DSYoungEsq said:
2. You aren't correct regarding what the original poster was discussing. This may be because you didn't really understand what he was talking about.
Original poster talked about production income being smaller in February. If you manage to see production income in the Budget screen, you're the best player I know then. :rolleyes:
Or, IOW, "you didn't read the first post, or you don't know the game".

DSYoungEsq said:
3. The issue under discussion does not involve the Financial Summary screen. That sidebar window always accurately reflects the prior month's income and expenditures, as has been noted by lawkeeper.
Answered on the previous paragraph. Discussion drifted from that Financial Summary, and no, it doesn't always accurately reflects prior month's income & expenses, since there's that display bug. If you had read AND understood my previous posts, you'd know it. :mad:

DSYoungEsq said:
4. The issue under discussion is the incorrect calculation of anticipated income for the current month displayed in the tooltip that pops up when you hover your pointer over the slider marked "To Treasury" in the Budget sidebar window. If you keep that tooltip open while the year goes by, you will notice a relatively minor dip in anticipated income during the month of February. After March arrives, the dip in anticipated income stops showing, and a review of the Financial Summary for February will show that it didn't happen, anyway.
Again, same answer.
And like Cerberus told it, there's a display bug in the Budget screen too.

DSYoungEsq said:
5. Because the screen at issue is the display of anticipated revenue, (pay attention here, lawkeeper) it has nothing to do with January, and everything to do with February.
Fourth answer, same answer. We were talking of the Financial Summary. I'm wondering who doesn't actually pay attention. :p
 

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First of all, a long overdue, and quite appropriate mea culpa and please excuse me to lawkeeper; I have reread what and how I posted and neither the words nor the tone were appropos. I must have been REALLY tired or mad at someone else. :(

I've looked into this further. I have the answer.

The Financial Summary window has some limitations, most importantly the fact that the summary of income portion is woefully inadequate to report all the types of income you receive in a month. There are eight different income categories reported in the ledger; squeezing that down into three or four line items in the Summary is very difficult.

To accomplish this, the line item "Tax Income" includes Ledger entries for "Taxation," "Tolls," and "Trade Tarriffs," as well as, if you have them, "Vassals." "Tolls" you might recall are reported as "Trade Taxes" in the tooltip that appears when you hover over Province Income in a province information window. The line item "Trading Income" reflects what it should, that is, income from your traders. "Gold Mines" show you the production income you receive from your gold mines, provinces for which no true "production income" is received.

"Goods Production" is another issue entirely. This line in the Financial Summary reports two Ledger entries: "Production" and "Manufactory." This comes with two caveats: 1. It incorrectly truncates monthly manufactory income to a whole number only (instead of rounding to the nearest tenth), and 2. It will not report manufactory income for the month of January.

To test out this situation, I loaded and played as Russia in the Napoleon's Ambition scenario. During the first two years, Russia is reported in the Financial Summary screen as having monthly production income of 33.1 ducats, except in the screen appearing during February, which reports January's income and expenditures. That one month reports production income of 31.1 ducats. It also reports a total income 2.5 ducats lower (roughly) than the months to either side.

I saved the game each month on the first of the month during 1796. This way I could check the actual figures for the Treasury, the reported ledger entries, and the reported "lastmonthincome" and "lastmonthexpense." Not surprisingly, given the Financial Summary screen, the "lastmonthincome" for the save on Feb 1 showed 118.813 ducats; for the save on Mar 1 the "lastmonthincome" was 121.313 ducats. BUT, the Treasury figure saved for Feb. 1 was consistent with income of 121.313 ducats. "Aha!" I said to myself. That is the same as the reported manufactory monthly income!

I looked at the save from Jan. 1. THAT save listed no manufactory income in the ledger for the current year (which had just started) or the current month. But the save files for Feb. 1 and Mar. 1 both showed not only manufactory income for the proper number of month prior to the save (2.5 for Feb, 5.0 for Mar), but also manufactory income already recorded for the "current month." In other words, The manufactory income is granted at the very beginning of the month, before I could manually stop the computer and save in all cases except January, where the income doesn't appear until the very end of the month.

Thus, it isn't clear exactly why the game runs this way, but "Goods Production" in the Financial Summary reports a combination of Production and Manufactory incomes every month except for February (January's results), when it doesn't report your manufactory income from January. Fortunately, the game includes that income in the total income for the month that it uses to calculate investment income and Treasury income/expenditure.

As to the truncation issue, I tested this by manually altering the save file for March 1 to add a fourth manufactory in a "wrong" province, then adding two more, then subtracting one. In all cases, the result was predictable. "Goods Production" went up by one full ducat after adding one manufactory, went up another full ducat adding two more, but lost a full ducat when removing one (for a total of five). Instead of adding 3.5 ducats to "Goods Production," it only added 3, just as it was only adding 2 at the start of the game when it should have been adding 2.5 to the display.

Interestingly enough, when you restart the game, the Financial Summary the first month after you restart doesn't reflect the increased income from the added in manufactories, although the income IS added to the Ledger and the Treasury. Obviously, the game uses something other than the actual addition of manufactory income to calculate that income for the Summary; most likely basing it on the truncated income reported for the previous month.

In summary: there are two display bugs. One improperly truncates the monthly income from manufactories when adding that income to Production income to create the line item entry "Goods Production" in the Financial Summary screen. The other improperly fails to add the manufactory income to the summary of January income/expenditure, thus seeming to underreport "Goods Production" for that month. Neither bug affects the actual calculations the game uses to determine what you have invested in research or what you have added to/spent from your Treasury.

I'm guessing for lawkeeper that can add up to quite an underreport by the mid-16th century, with all those FA's in existence!! ;)
 
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DSYoungEsq said:
First of all, a long overdue, and quite appropriate mea culpa and please excuse me to lawkeeper; I have reread what and how I posted and neither the words nor the tone were appropos. I must have been REALLY tired or mad at someone else. :(
Excuses accepted. :) *
And I'm sorry if I've been a little mocking in my answer.

DSYoungEsq said:
I've looked into this further. I have the answer.
Well done. I didn't think about manufactories, but after looking in my current game (sorry, but I had to see it with my own eyes, call me Thomas if you want ;) ), that's right. Don't forget to send notice to the Economy FAQ's writer. :)

DSYoungEsq said:
I'm guessing for lawkeeper that can add up to quite an underreport by the mid-16th century, with all those FA's in existence!! ;)
FAA's and others. :D :wacko:
But that's why I don't look in the FSW in February.

* But you didn't need to post it twice. ;)
 

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Intresting to know abut the display bugs in the Financial Summary screen.
I never liked that screen.
The ledger is so much more appealing. It adds a historical atmosphere to the game with its old double entry bookkeeping system. I mean those negative numbers in the Financial Summary screen would have no mathematical meaning to people in the middle ages. It would be very nice if EU 3 contained even more oldstyle bookkeeping. Creating the right atmosphere in a game means everything.