Whats up with this new HOI IV?

[rwatso]

So after a few months hiatus, I started a few new games of HOI 4 (Normal Difficulty) ... I played as Germany and get about 2 million soldiers deployed by 1939. Then War with Poland.

However, I then quickly get tons of British amphibious assaults on northern Germany which break through despite having 40 divisions up there. I also have 40 divisions along the french border and they dont hold even with the west wall and air superiority. I then get a handful of french or British divisions running around behind my back lines taking territory and playing TAG YOUR IT! I cant pin them down because they just retreat and fan out and take German territory.

It just seems... for lack of a better word... stupid... very historically inaccurate that a single Brit of French division could just roam around Germany taking territory and then moving on but the territory it took way back a few hundred miles ago was still under their occupation with no personnel present. I enjoy a tough AI and have have played strategy games since the early 80s on my Apple IIe, but this seems unbalanced and more importantly not fun.

Any suggestions? Again, I dont mind a tough AI but this seems like a balance issue to me...

 

[MrLevenstein]

Well in time it's gonna get better . I'm curious about 1.4 patch, as I understood they will make a new AI code instead of making changes to the current one .

 

[Gamer_1745]

Honestly the game had a lot of stuff going for it, but I feel like its not seen as a money maker and is being ditched for Stelaris and well aged and should be dead games like CK II and EU IV.

Perceptions are interesting things. I am not talking about the games themselves but what people think the company is doing. I have no real inside info, but it seems that the Stelaris team & team leader is much more into promoting the game. @podcat seems less interested in promoting the game & more in working on the game. I think PDS is trying to hire more people to work on HOI IV. I have no idea on the budget being spent on EU VI vs. HOI IV. I will say I think it is highly unlikely they will cancel development support for HOI IV (new DLCs) anytime soon.

I too know of Matrix and Slitherine games (basically the same company) and I have some contacts there too (nice bunch of people). They have their OOB WW II game which is a fun game but no where near a game like HOI IV (have you seen their idea of what Stalingrad map is like for that game?).

 

[rwatso]

I am very familiar with Slitherine and Matrix. great companies.

 

[rwatso]

Well I have played 7 games the past 3 days where I couldn't break through Belgium with 50 German divisions and air superiority. I had Tigers for goodness sake! I also kept fighting off North German Coast amphibious attacks that ended in Berlin falling each time because it was a little rat race with British units heading south one at a time. This is disappointing... I still have CKII and EUIV but for HOIV its now nothing but: UNINSTALL . No more DLC ... I am gonna wait for HOI V, I guess. Dont care about the wasted money but , I am not going to waste any more free time with this complete unbalanced and unrealistic game.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

The forces you described should be sufficient for the jobs, on the surface at least. Last time I played Germany vs. AI I had less than 40 divisions on west wall with the forts you get from the focus and the French never attacked. I had less than 40 divisions (1-2 per port province, plus small reserve) in German coast and the British never moved far past the coast. They did manage to land of course, didn't even attempt to prevent that but once they landed I redeployed the local reserve and additional divisions that were training in central Germany to cordon them off. Once their supplies ran out I reduced the invasion force with help of CAS.

I also broke through Belgium mainly with my 22 panzer and motor divisions. Not sure why you would fail with 50. Were they in good supply? Did you have a planning bonus? Did you use CAS? What kind of template did you use (my template for panzer was, I think, 4 tank, 4 mot, 1 SPAAG and 1 SPG in that game). Actually, since you said you had Tigers when was this even? Did you research Tigers ahead of time?

 

[Axe99]

@rwatso - don't give up and definitely give it some practice, rolling through the low countries and France as Germany is eminently achievable. Some things to think about:

- Have a few strike divisions with panzers and mot, and some SPART and TDs if you can afford it (I can't recall if I have these for the attack on France though - but definitely for the attack on the USSR). Armoured divisions break through the lines much better than infantry.
- Support your troops with air superiority through fighters and CAS.
- Garrison your ports. Just needs to be 6 x INF + ENG support brigade and it should stop most of the landings. Have a 'flying squad' of a handful of divisions near Hamburg to smash any troops that land next to a port. You'll destroy a lot of enemy divisions this way, making your advance into France easier.
- Take Denmark relatively early, as that closes off the Baltic, reducing the amount of coastline you need to watch.

 

[C-Breeze]

Garrison your ports. Just needs to be 6 x INF + ENG support brigade and it should stop most of the landings. Have a 'flying squad' of a handful of divisions near Hamburg to smash any troops that land next to a port. You'll destroy a lot of enemy divisions this way, making your advance into France easier.

This.

I prepare a concentrated Atlantic Wall on the northern border and I find it works quite well as a strong point defense. As long as the ports are secure, no need to worry about secondary incursions, (especially if there's a reserve in the area), as ultimately they're not going anywhere.

 

[Sloeberjong]

So after a few months hiatus, I started a few new games of HOI 4 (Normal Difficulty) ... I played as Germany and get about 2 million soldiers deployed by 1939. Then War with Poland.

However, I then quickly get tons of British amphibious assaults on northern Germany which break through despite having 40 divisions up there. I also have 40 divisions along the french border and they dont hold even with the west wall and air superiority. I then get a handful of french or British divisions running around behind my back lines taking territory and playing TAG YOUR IT! I cant pin them down because they just retreat and fan out and take German territory.

It just seems... for lack of a better word... stupid... very historically inaccurate that a single Brit of French division could just roam around Germany taking territory and then moving on but the territory it took way back a few hundred miles ago was still under their occupation with no personnel present. I enjoy a tough AI and have have played strategy games since the early 80s on my Apple IIe, but this seems unbalanced and more importantly not fun.

Any suggestions? Again, I dont mind a tough AI but this seems like a balance issue to me...

You seem to have a lot of divisions, but are they all well equiped? Do you garrison the ports? What is the general makeup of your army? How many panzer/mobile divs? What do your inf. divisions consists of? Did you protect your coastline with air/naval forces? I never had much trouble with these issues.

With what did you try and take the Netherlands/belgium? Do you have enough tanks for that?

So many questions...it really shouldn't be much of a problem. You do need the right forces for it though. I personally prefer a smaller well equiped force. I doubt I ever had 2 mil. men in the field by the time ww2 starts. Just don't need it and I took everything Germany did historically and then some. Then I build up for Barbarossa and/or Sealion.

 

[War Emblem]

So you are quitting because the game is too hard? You originally state that you don't mind tough AI but you want to uninstall as soon as you can't roll over everything? If you have 2 million men in 39 it sounds like your army if of poor quality. Change your build composition. There are about 5000 different ways you can build up Germany. Some will work, some won't.

 

[porta80]

How do your division templates look like?

 

[rcbricker33]

It sounds like you are still getting a handle on the game. There are tried and true methods to set up your division templates that will ensure that WWII goes easily as planned all the way through the fall of france.

1. Check you division templates. Until you attack the USSR you really only need a few light armor divisions and infantry. Mostly infantry cause they are cheap for Germany to build and maintain.

2. Naval bombers are your friend build around 500 or so and patrol the coast. this plus small ( no more than 20) submarine packs on convoy raiding and the Brits will just keep sending ships and soldiers to the bottom of the sea.

3. 50 divisions attack Belgium is too many. you are just being inefficient here do to width concepts. Always go through the Netherlands to flank the Belgians and allied forces. Then Belgium falls in a couple weeks at most.

Read up on the threads here that deal with combat concepts and I think you will start to see an improvement of your expected results.

 

[rwatso]

So you are quitting because the game is too hard? You originally state that you don't mind tough AI but you want to uninstall as soon as you can't roll over everything? If you have 2 million men in 39 it sounds like your army if of poor quality. Change your build composition. There are about 5000 different ways you can build up Germany. Some will work, some won't.

Nope not quitting because the game is too hard. I have played this game and prior editions for ten fricking years. I aint quiting...

 

[Dalwin]

So after a few months hiatus, I started a few new games of HOI 4 (Normal Difficulty) ... I played as Germany and get about 2 million soldiers deployed by 1939. Then War with Poland.

However, I then quickly get tons of British amphibious assaults on northern Germany which break through despite having 40 divisions up there. I also have 40 divisions along the french border and they dont hold even with the west wall and air superiority. I then get a handful of french or British divisions running around behind my back lines taking territory and playing TAG YOUR IT! I cant pin them down because they just retreat and fan out and take German territory.

It just seems... for lack of a better word... stupid... very historically inaccurate that a single Brit of French division could just roam around Germany taking territory and then moving on but the territory it took way back a few hundred miles ago was still under their occupation with no personnel present. I enjoy a tough AI and have have played strategy games since the early 80s on my Apple IIe, but this seems unbalanced and more importantly not fun.

Any suggestions? Again, I dont mind a tough AI but this seems like a balance issue to me...

You are doing something very wrong, I have seen the Brits and French land with 40 divisions up north but I have never had trouble holding them with 10 or so long enough for Poland to fall and me to redirect stronger forces to eliminating the pocket.

I have also never committed more than 12 or 15 divisions to holding against France. For you to lose ground there with 40 seems totally baffling.

I am also talking about games where I have cranked up the slider for the AI.

 

[Dalwin]

Well I have played 7 games the past 3 days where I couldn't break through Belgium with 50 German divisions and air superiority. I had Tigers for goodness sake! I also kept fighting off North German Coast amphibious attacks that ended in Berlin falling each time because it was a little rat race with British units heading south one at a time. This is disappointing... I still have CKII and EUIV but for HOIV its now nothing but: UNINSTALL . No more DLC ... I am gonna wait for HOI V, I guess. Dont care about the wasted money but , I am not going to waste any more free time with this complete unbalanced and unrealistic game.

Again I cannot picture this. Are you trying to attack directly into Belgium from the one province wide border with Germany? If so that does not work. it is a blunder.

here is a plan that will succeed every time. I am not saying it is the best plan but it is simple and reliable.

Phase A. Start by declaring against Holland and Luxemburg only.

1.) have an army of 20 or so infantry that sweeps into Holland.
2.) at the same time as above have a mobile army of 10-12 panzer and motorized divisions slide along the southern edge of Holland just above the Belgian border. You have not yet declared against Belgium itself.
3.)have another infantry army of 20 or so divisions waiting on the German side of the Belgian border. (this one can actually be as small as a dozen divisions if you are short elsewhere.)
4.) have a second mobile army of similar composition as the one in item 2 strike Luxemburg at the same time as you hit Holland. This one has a smaller infantry army behind it who will advance to cover the flank during phase B

Phase B to be launched after Holland surrenders. Declare on Belgium

The force from item 1 leaves a few divisions behind to guard the captured Dutch ports. It then pushes SW along with the mobile army from Item 2. Their objective is to take Paris itself along with anything north of Paris. They continue to sweep west until France surrenders.

The force from item 3 drive into Belgium taking all major cities. After these are garrisoned the rest of this army joins the drive to Paris and beyond.

The force from item 4 drives SW from Luxemburg taking care not to attack the extreme end of the Maginot line. The infantry will advance to hold this flank so the mobile forces can continue their push. This force is basically overkill. You can win the war without them but they make it much easier. They drive in and keep the enemy line broken and the enemy's forces scattered.

All told tis is 70-80 divisions, not counting another dozen or so just sitting on the other side of the Maginot to keep the French from mounting an offensive.

I am also talking about fairly basic 20 width divisions here. Nothing special or min maxed is needed. It is straight meat and potatoes. The majority of your tanks may well still be lights at this point, especially if you are invading in the Fall of '39 instead of waiting for the Spring of '40.

It is unnecessary to send any German forces into Italy to push there. The Italians will do fine on their own.

Edit: addendum, other than a few wings of fighters on defensive patrols over Germany, all of your remaining fighters along with an CAS or TAC should be focused in the Benelux region. They switch to Northern France after Belgium falls. You should have enough for air superiority and for strong ground strikes. This is a critical element. If you have not built enough planes, things become much harder.

 

[grandad1982]

Unless you already uninstalled screenshots of you main inf and tank templates and your logistics tab would be helpful.

To me it sounds like you have to many under equipped divisions as I'm not sure how you even get 2 million men in the field by 39 without cutting major corners!

The bits to be actually annoyed about are the constant micro invasions and the slightly silly way supply can work for the divisions running around hundreds of miles behind your lines.

 

[Praetori]

Any suggestions? Again, I dont mind a tough AI but this seems like a balance issue to me...

As others have asked as well. Are your equipment stockpiles adequate? With negative numbers in equipment the divisions in the field get stomped in the way you describe and logically so since it's hard to fight French and British divisions with bare hands. A division lacking in trucks or mechanized vehicles will slow down to a crawl even with air superiority and will be outrun by even footslogging enemies.
Equipment stockpiles and production is the single most important thing in the game and without properly prioritized templates and theaters it will bring the entire army to a halt as soon as you go into negatives.