Because of the additional heat sinks that you mount when making a LL heat neutral, the LL actually gives your 'Mech better heat efficiency. Counterintuitively, a heat neutral LL will result in a more heat efficient 'Mech than a heat neutral AC5.
What's the point of sub-20 autocannons?
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Actually this is a very unspecific question since the utility of weapons varies with pilot skill so much.
A better question would perhaps be when do you equip AC2/5/10 and for what kind of a pilot, on medium/heavy/assault mech?
A better question would perhaps be when do you equip AC2/5/10 and for what kind of a pilot, on medium/heavy/assault mech?
I have found mechs with AC2s to be very effective on base attack missions when paired with a scout mech with a pilot with the sensor lock ability. The turrets will never get to shoot at the scout if you play it right, using LOS to you advantage. The AC2 mech has to get LOS, but it stay mostly out of turret range visual range..
I realize LRMs are a better choice when possible, since they can indirect fire, but the AC2 and its range can be a big advantage.
I realize LRMs are a better choice when possible, since they can indirect fire, but the AC2 and its range can be a big advantage.
That's also true, in a way. Helpful if you spend a lot of time JJing around or regularly take turns off in combat. Not so much if you just want to get off as many shots as possible.
So again it comes down to circumstances, context and style of play. Every weapon has its place, and it all depends on which mech you're using and how you're using it, and that's really where all the uniqueness comes from.
AC/2 is better for this task, as you get more shots per ton, which translates to a better damage output to neutralize targets you can directly see.
Which is basically the only reason I've ever put SRM2s on my mechs...
Line of sight certainly is an issue in this game. As it is far to short. This counts especially in faster Mechs like the Shadow Hawk. I field the 2D variant instead of the standard modell as soon as I can. The 2D model with 5 jump jets 2 Medium Lasers and as much SRM launchers I can get into the chassis is a backstabbing beast with lots of armor. Because of its speed I never missed the lack of long range weapons on "my" Shadow Hawk.
Actually, also true in terms of raw DPS. More heat sinks means that you'll cool down faster if you spend a turn not shooting, which means you can start shooting again earlier. AC5s can deal stability damage, and deal slightly more damage overall, but if you spend an equivalent amount of weight on LLs and heatsinks as you would on AC5s then your 'Mech will run cooler and have a higher sustained damage output.
I like to use medium mechs with jumpjets with *only* an ac20.
Jump behind a mech and blow its CT out with one shot...
that thing turned the tide in a LOT of my campaign early missions, cause an ac20 mech like that can one shot most small and medium annoying mechs in one shot.
But it needed a tactics/gunnery pilot with precision strike.
I never really liked ac10 or 5. I went in their faces with biggest mechs using an ac 20 and SRM.
A mech with an ac 20 and SRM was ideal to capture other mechs with precision strike, and its so rewarding to get a 18% headshot with an ac20.
Yesterday, i killed two 95 ton mechs on first shot by headshotting with an ac20, and it happened twice in a row!
all in all, its playstyle. but it seems short range mechs will be more feasible in 1.3
Jump behind a mech and blow its CT out with one shot...
that thing turned the tide in a LOT of my campaign early missions, cause an ac20 mech like that can one shot most small and medium annoying mechs in one shot.
But it needed a tactics/gunnery pilot with precision strike.
I never really liked ac10 or 5. I went in their faces with biggest mechs using an ac 20 and SRM.
A mech with an ac 20 and SRM was ideal to capture other mechs with precision strike, and its so rewarding to get a 18% headshot with an ac20.
Yesterday, i killed two 95 ton mechs on first shot by headshotting with an ac20, and it happened twice in a row!
all in all, its playstyle. but it seems short range mechs will be more feasible in 1.3
Lone SRM-2s are bad because you have to haul around a ton of ammo that you'll barely dip into. If you have spare missile hardpoints on a mech with a fair number of SRMs there are arguments for replacing a SRM-4 with a pair of SRM-2s. Sometimes you'll be able to fire one of them without overheating whereas a pure SRM-4 build would have to leave 4 tubes idle, and if you have multishot you can use a single SRM-2 to strip a chevron from your B target while barely reducing your chance to finish of your A target.
I agree that it’s all situational, depending on what play style and available mechs.
However, there is a certain peace of mind when taking down a parade of high-tonnage assaults by softening them up with two KCs each bulwarked and firing 2X AC20s+++. Kind of gives them the type of heartburn a Tums just can’t help.
Demoed this technique to a couple of Davion lances last night. 4 Banshees, 2 Awesomes, a Victor and a Stalker.
However, there is a certain peace of mind when taking down a parade of high-tonnage assaults by softening them up with two KCs each bulwarked and firing 2X AC20s+++. Kind of gives them the type of heartburn a Tums just can’t help.
Demoed this technique to a couple of Davion lances last night. 4 Banshees, 2 Awesomes, a Victor and a Stalker.
I like to use medium mechs with jumpjets with *only* an ac20.
Yesterday, i killed two 95 ton mechs on first shot by headshotting with an ac20, and it happened twice in a row!
Had a similar situation just last night. But using PPC's instead.
2 KGC in the opfor.
round 4: sensor lock from scout, 2PPC Orion precision shot to the head, 1 hit head open, 3PPC Awesome , Precision to the head, dead KGC
round 5: repeat of round 4
All from way out side of AC20 range, somewhat lucky but 200 tons of mechs with 60+ tons of useless AC20, dead in 2 rounds. No return damage, no risk either. If I miss well there's a Highlander with a Guass Rifle as backup. In your situation if you miss your mech is open to a world of hurt and even 95% with precision shots miss occasionally.
May not work in skirmish against a human, but against the AI I still feel AC20 are only useful if you want them to be.
Headshot damage tiers:
(The lowest damage single shot weapon that will decapitate a mech in N hits)
No DR:
1 hit: AC/10++ damage
2 hits: Medium Laser++ Damage
3 hits: Medium Laser
4 hits: Small Laser
20% DR
1 hit: AC/20 (any)
2 hits: Large Laser (any)
3 hits: Medium Laser+ Damage
4 hits: Medium Laser
40% DR
1 hit: AC/20+ Damage (110 Damage)
2 hits: PPC+ Damage (55 damage)
3 hits: Medium Laser++ Damage (35 Damage)
4 hits: Medium Laser+ Damage (30 Damage)
60% DR:
2 hits: AC/20 (any)
3 hits: PPC+ Damage (55 damage)
4 hits: Large Laser (any)
Chance of at least one Headshot for N shots with called shot mastery: (95% hit chance, 16% head hit chance)
1: 15% (about 2 in 13)
2: 28% (about 2 in 7)
3: 39% (about 2 in 5)
4: 48% (almost, but not quite, 1 in 2)
5: 56%
6: 62%
7: 68%
8: 73%
10: 81%
13: 88%
Chance of at least two headshots under same conditions:
2: 2%
3: 6%
4: 11%
5: 17%
6: 22%
7: 29%
Does the AC/5++ damage exist? It may just be poor luck but I can’t recall having seen one.
So it turns out PPC and Large Laser builds can be almost as good as AC/20 builds at headhunting, with no ammo worries and better range- if you bring enough of them, and have +damage PPCs, and morale to burn.
You can also use the hit chances for mismatched volleys of weapons where any combination of N hits will result in a kill. For instance, firing one PPC++ and one standard AC/5 at a mech with 40% DR has the same 6% kill probability as firing two PPC++.
(The lowest damage single shot weapon that will decapitate a mech in N hits)
No DR:
1 hit: AC/10++ damage
2 hits: Medium Laser++ Damage
3 hits: Medium Laser
4 hits: Small Laser
20% DR
1 hit: AC/20 (any)
2 hits: Large Laser (any)
3 hits: Medium Laser+ Damage
4 hits: Medium Laser
40% DR
1 hit: AC/20+ Damage (110 Damage)
2 hits: PPC+ Damage (55 damage)
3 hits: Medium Laser++ Damage (35 Damage)
4 hits: Medium Laser+ Damage (30 Damage)
60% DR:
2 hits: AC/20 (any)
3 hits: PPC+ Damage (55 damage)
4 hits: Large Laser (any)
Chance of at least one Headshot for N shots with called shot mastery: (95% hit chance, 16% head hit chance)
1: 15% (about 2 in 13)
2: 28% (about 2 in 7)
3: 39% (about 2 in 5)
4: 48% (almost, but not quite, 1 in 2)
5: 56%
6: 62%
7: 68%
8: 73%
10: 81%
13: 88%
Chance of at least two headshots under same conditions:
2: 2%
3: 6%
4: 11%
5: 17%
6: 22%
7: 29%
Does the AC/5++ damage exist? It may just be poor luck but I can’t recall having seen one.
So it turns out PPC and Large Laser builds can be almost as good as AC/20 builds at headhunting, with no ammo worries and better range- if you bring enough of them, and have +damage PPCs, and morale to burn.
You can also use the hit chances for mismatched volleys of weapons where any combination of N hits will result in a kill. For instance, firing one PPC++ and one standard AC/5 at a mech with 40% DR has the same 6% kill probability as firing two PPC++.
CBT:
AC2: mobility kill vehicles from far away, best AA weapon, plink opponents to get them to come towards you.
AC5: the only weapon worse is the UAC5 and one-shot launchers.
AC10: reasonable alternative to the Large Laser before DHS on mechs with lots of energy weapons already.
AC20: 20 point hole puncher that comes into play in short range.
HBS BT:
AC2: sniper weapon, suffers from the tendency towards short range combat.
AC5: multipurpose medium sized gun
AC10: subpar all around but it's not awful.
AC20: Big damage, itty bitty range.
AC2: mobility kill vehicles from far away, best AA weapon, plink opponents to get them to come towards you.
AC5: the only weapon worse is the UAC5 and one-shot launchers.
AC10: reasonable alternative to the Large Laser before DHS on mechs with lots of energy weapons already.
AC20: 20 point hole puncher that comes into play in short range.
HBS BT:
AC2: sniper weapon, suffers from the tendency towards short range combat.
AC5: multipurpose medium sized gun
AC10: subpar all around but it's not awful.
AC20: Big damage, itty bitty range.
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I wouldn't say that is a later-era thing; the HBK-4P is pretty close to optimal mech-killing and so is a King Crab.
It has the same range as MLas and SRMs, which is just about view distance + moving distance. I can't honestly say I can count the number of times my AC/20s have been out of range on one hand, but it is certainly damned few times.
On paper. I mean, all that armor and dual AC/20s with the backup of a Large Laser and LRM 15 make the KGC look pretty terrifying. But in reality a KGC tends to be easily outmaneuvered and killed at range, or have its torsos ripped open to expose that juicy ammo. Add how knockdowns are easier on the tabletop . . . in the HBS game it can be easily guaranteed to keep it on the ground, out of range, and generally a pinata to take apart for salvage. The Atlas is actually scarier, due to its weaponry being a little better protected and varied.
Now, the Swayback 4P is not much better. The HBK-4P tends to not focus its lasers in one spot, so it more "sandblasts" armor off. It also can be out maneuvered due to its slow speed, and if picked apart from the right-hand side it will start losing most of its arsenal like a GRF-1N. If you can help all its lasers hit the same spot, or if you're going in through rear armor, this isn't as big of an issue. But again - it's slow, and if it does get a back shot it's because someone let it happen.
The trade off in BT is that less range = more raw damage, in most cases.
AC/20, ML, and SRMs are all short range with either high damage or efficient in terms of damage per ton. Late game, that combo can 1 shot any mech on the table with a called CT shot, or at the least cripple any mech without calling the shot. Using terrain and positioning against the AI, it's pretty easy to get into the front without even being shot--or only hit with some LRM indirect fire splash.
AC/10, LL, and PPC are all medium ranged. LL is more efficient damage/ton, but without stability damage. PPC and AC/10 are comparable, but with +dam AC/10 being better at random headshot kills and PPC getting the stacking debuff. In truth, medium range feels like it's the longest most fights end up taking place at, without intentionally working for it.
At longer range, the AC/5 and AC/2 are okay, but you have to build your playstyle around range to get the most out of it. That means rangefinder++ and/or a scout mech with sensor lock. You end up playing to grinding people down from range rather than punching big holes each turn. Of course, at this point, LRMs seem far more useful, other than their damage spread.
AC/20, ML, and SRMs are all short range with either high damage or efficient in terms of damage per ton. Late game, that combo can 1 shot any mech on the table with a called CT shot, or at the least cripple any mech without calling the shot. Using terrain and positioning against the AI, it's pretty easy to get into the front without even being shot--or only hit with some LRM indirect fire splash.
AC/10, LL, and PPC are all medium ranged. LL is more efficient damage/ton, but without stability damage. PPC and AC/10 are comparable, but with +dam AC/10 being better at random headshot kills and PPC getting the stacking debuff. In truth, medium range feels like it's the longest most fights end up taking place at, without intentionally working for it.
At longer range, the AC/5 and AC/2 are okay, but you have to build your playstyle around range to get the most out of it. That means rangefinder++ and/or a scout mech with sensor lock. You end up playing to grinding people down from range rather than punching big holes each turn. Of course, at this point, LRMs seem far more useful, other than their damage spread.
Are you generally at short range or long range? I find that my short range weapons may not have trouble getting in range, but suffer significant accuracy penalties compared to longer range weapons.
Why do you want use an AC/20+++ ? Because it delivers 120 damage right into a location.
This nearly instantly vaporizes almost any vehicle or turning lighter armor heavies or assaults into chow fodder.
More importantly ? It is fun, because you have to bring it to range, you can't just stand and hope someone gets into your range. So JJs are a must on any AC/20 mech.
You have to play aggressive which comes with an element of risk, something which I enjoy very much. And yes, Medium laser boats do the same thing when spammed with precision shots, but it is just kinda overused now.
This nearly instantly vaporizes almost any vehicle or turning lighter armor heavies or assaults into chow fodder.
More importantly ? It is fun, because you have to bring it to range, you can't just stand and hope someone gets into your range. So JJs are a must on any AC/20 mech.
You have to play aggressive which comes with an element of risk, something which I enjoy very much. And yes, Medium laser boats do the same thing when spammed with precision shots, but it is just kinda overused now.
Do these numbers take into account hit roll corrections? Those do things like try to break streaks, and move probabilities like 95% that are close to 0(%) or 1(00%) closer to those ends. So e.g. 95% hit chances are more like 98%. I'm not sure how, if at all, hit roll correction plays into called shot probabilities.