'cause all they do is reject my propositions... I see there is a law to rule without it - what's the disadvantage??
What's the disadvantage of ruling without a Council?
- Thread starter The Guru
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You can give full powers to your ruler, it even gives you some nice demesne size bonus, but you won't have to ability to enforce realm peace, and all of your vassals will be able to join and form factions
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If the Coundil is active, its members won't have the ability to join factions. If not, they will be able to join factions so rebellions will be more frequent and dangerous.
Buy the councelors a favor so then you will be able to make them support your proposals.
Buy the councelors a favor so then you will be able to make them support your proposals.
In theory, rebellions and factions will be more frequent in dangerous.
In practice (atleast, in my experience) the added demense means you're the biggest badass in your kingdom in terms of army size.
As a result factions are less problematic and rebellions no less frequent than with an empowered council.
Infact, i can't recall a faction actually firing, but even if it did, my troops+mercs+retinues would be enough to crush it instantly.
Ofcourse, this playstyle leaves you with a smaller vassal limit, but Imperial administration has a nice +25 vassallimit just for that.
To conclude this somehow disorganised post: the negatives aren't nearly as bad as they seem.
In practice (atleast, in my experience) the added demense means you're the biggest badass in your kingdom in terms of army size.
As a result factions are less problematic and rebellions no less frequent than with an empowered council.
Infact, i can't recall a faction actually firing, but even if it did, my troops+mercs+retinues would be enough to crush it instantly.
Ofcourse, this playstyle leaves you with a smaller vassal limit, but Imperial administration has a nice +25 vassallimit just for that.
To conclude this somehow disorganised post: the negatives aren't nearly as bad as they seem.
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I'm trying to pursue a fully despotic Empire with no council and Imperial administration. As soon as you take the War Declaration privilege down, expect a massive revolt. Mine fired within a few months and managed to field more troops than what was left on my side (retinues included) - did they buff revolts recently?. I was expecting this and saved 9.5k for Mercs - one band was enough and I spent total 2k for the war. Good thing is that now most of the vassals are in jail which helps keeping them out of factions while I push with the imperial reforms.
One disadvantage I noticed so far is you can change the laws only once per 10 years instead of 5 years with the council.
I'm not sure how sustainable this is with a big empire as you get more vassals. While your demense does not grow proportionally to new land acquisitions.
One disadvantage I noticed so far is you can change the laws only once per 10 years instead of 5 years with the council.
I'm not sure how sustainable this is with a big empire as you get more vassals. While your demense does not grow proportionally to new land acquisitions.
Pretty much this.
It also means that about half of your vassals will have to spend their entire life in prison (unless you like civil wars and keep freeing them).
It was a tough life being a vassal in the Middle Ages
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Zero disadvantage at all. If you've been marrying your kids and kin into your vassals' family, they wont join factions anyway - Empower Council or otherwise. Those Non-Aggression Pacts are extra nice.
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Pretty much this.
It also means that about half of your vassals will have to spend their entire life in prison (unless you like civil wars and keep freeing them).
It was a tough life being a vassal in the Middle Ages
Thats basically how I roll now. I dont empower the council, & I use a combination of spying on powerful vassals to get reason for imprisonment, & using my spymaster to make them drop out of factions. Sometimes if Im big enough I'll make my own antipope to be able to excommunicate & then imprison troublesome vassals also.
Its still fairly easy to run with the council not empowered. The only thing I really miss is not being able to enforce realm peace.
You lose the ability to stop 6-8 vassals from being able to faction, freeing up your relatives for foreign claimants/alliances. Simply giving them war declaration powers costs you very little-- needing to occasionally buy one or two favors costs you a lot less than you save in faction management. Any powers you use rarely anyway are also safe to give the council if you want to increase your vassal limit (I rarely execute or banish for example, so on the occasions I do I'm okay with spending a favor or two to do it if it's needed).
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I enjoy the struggle of my nobles trying to empower themselves, and I enjoy even more crushing and replacing them every couple of generations with new guys with better stats.
it's all about the balancing act and that's what I love about ck2, maybe for 10 years I'm forced by a faction to empower the council, I'll request the support to regain my demesne next law change, My power is inevitable
it's all about the balancing act and that's what I love about ck2, maybe for 10 years I'm forced by a faction to empower the council, I'll request the support to regain my demesne next law change, My power is inevitable
You can ask vassals to end their wars individually at the cost of some prestige and some gold.Thats basically how I roll now. I dont empower the council, & I use a combination of spying on powerful vassals to get reason for imprisonment, & using my spymaster to make them drop out of factions. Sometimes if Im big enough I'll make my own antipope to be able to excommunicate & then imprison troublesome vassals also.
Its still fairly easy to run with the council not empowered. The only thing I really miss is not being able to enforce realm peace.
But for very big empires, it must be tedious. Maybe at some point, empowering the council is the way to go.
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This does not work for me. At least not in the long term. I get a NAP the fist time they are married, but I'm not able to renew it after vassal dies. My big revolt for council power was run by my kinsman.
It depends... For a small realm, there's almost no downside to abolishing the council. Your barons/etc can't join factions anyway, and so for a duchy or small kingdom (think Navarra), the extra +2 demesne is worth it's weight in gold.
As you get bigger and bigger, it becomes more of an issue. It's hard to force members out of an "increase council power" faction, somewhere around +70 opinion of you. Between that and the fact that you just have more (and bigger) vassals, things get a bit trickier.
Personally I always neuter the Council and just maximize my demesne, but then I usually stay smallish anyway.
As you get bigger and bigger, it becomes more of an issue. It's hard to force members out of an "increase council power" faction, somewhere around +70 opinion of you. Between that and the fact that you just have more (and bigger) vassals, things get a bit trickier.
Personally I always neuter the Council and just maximize my demesne, but then I usually stay smallish anyway.
Now more than ever, being a horny old ruler with a ton of kids carries more benefits than risk. You don't need a full marriage-- betroth your 1 year-old baby to them and that non-aggression pact will halt their factions in a flash. I've noticed that even marrying into their grandkids is good enough for a pact, so planning out betrothals could get you smooth sails for at least 2 generations.
The only rocky successions I've had were ones with small families, since one or two large vassals weren't married in. But that was still relatively smooth, since everyone else did play along.
The only rocky successions I've had were ones with small families, since one or two large vassals weren't married in. But that was still relatively smooth, since everyone else did play along.
Those NAPs are very helpful and with or without a council it's wise to take advantage of them. The nice thing about having a council with war dec powers is that you can use a few more family members per generation for the purposes of claims/outside alliances, which let you expand quite a bit faster in exchange for a power where your council will rarely vote against you anyway, and even then 1 or 2 favors are easy to come by.