What's the difference ? 2x tanks vs. SPG+TD

[Mevsrei]

I understand that that developing a TD variant is for maintaining hard-attack capabilities with an outdated chassis. The same goes for the SPG variant and soft-attack.
But what does it change exactly? Is a setup of 2 tanks = 1TD+1SPG of the same chassis? Are they worse? Are they better? Do they differ in other ways?

 

[Vidkjaer]

I understand that that developing a TD variant is for maintaining hard-attack capabilities with an outdated chassis. The same goes for the SPG variant and soft-attack.
But what does it change exactly? Is a setup of 2 tanks = 1TD+1SPG of the same chassis? Are they worse? Are they better? Do they differ in other ways?

I would expect a Tank Destroyer battalion has its own unit, like in HOI3, but i am not sure.
Most likely we havnt seen this unit in the videos so far.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

TD and SPG would be their own battalions. Worse? Uh, well, the tank they are built on is outdated, so you can only improve it by giving it another purpose.

 

[podcat]

TD's also have higher armor piercing than the same level of tank (roughly one level ahead) so will be an asset against armored opponents, while being cheaper and requiring less research as well as impacting less efficiency loss on production lines compared to going for a new tank line

They are much worse on the offense though compared to tanks so not a good breakthrough unit.

 

[TheDecider]

^^ Sounds like good units for the (extended) Maginot Line then

 

[Art1985]

TD's also have higher armor piercing than the same level of tank (roughly one level ahead) so will be an asset against armored opponents, while being cheaper and requiring less research as well as impacting less efficiency loss on production lines compared to going for a new tank line

They are much worse on the offense though compared to tanks so not a good breakthrough unit.

Will we have some rare units like sturmtiger? Maybe in future DLC "Rare and experimental weapons of ww2" with secret weapons and nation specific weapons?

 

[safe-keeper]

You can make AA, TD and SPGs based on any chassis, far as I know, including heavy tanks.

 

[LostAlone]

TD's also have higher armor piercing than the same level of tank (roughly one level ahead) so will be an asset against armored opponents, while being cheaper and requiring less research as well as impacting less efficiency loss on production lines compared to going for a new tank line

They are much worse on the offense though compared to tanks so not a good breakthrough unit.

That's pretty much exactly what I'd want to see from TDs as a unit.

 

[Riaelyn]

Will we have some rare units like sturmtiger? Maybe in future DLC "Rare and experimental weapons of ww2" with secret weapons and nation specific weapons?

Hypothetically it should already be in the game. Each tank that you research opens up a AA, TD, and assault gun version. Thus, just research the Tiger I and voila. Whether its called that in game or not, I couldn't tell you.

 

[Onisuzume]

Will we have some rare units like sturmtiger? Maybe in future DLC "Rare and experimental weapons of ww2" with secret weapons and nation specific weapons?

Pfft, sturmtiger.
Try some of the japanese (super-)heavies like the O-I (both the 100-ton and 120-ton version), which pre-date the Maus.

 

[phantomrider]

There a whole of questions like this one that have not really been answered (Podcat sorta did for this) that have to do with "combat resolution" as well as "proper" or "ideal" division composition. For example, if a division lacks an engineer unit (or has one) what happens? Does it move slower (no one with skill and equipment to fix roads/bridges) does it attack entrenched or prepared positions less well (no one with skills and equipment to "take out" mines, pill boxes etc. Is the casualty causing number just added up from the sub units so the more artillery you have the more damage you cause (or do you have to have some ideal "balance" between infantry and artillery? Are the armored piercing vs armor protecting number significant as they were in TFH (I interpret podcats response as a yes on this one). Will their be significant combined arms bonuses like in HOI3 that need to be considered in building divisions etc. I would hope that the development diaries will address these kind of questions for air sea and land and also for air - land combat and air sea attacks as well.

 

[Denkt]

Well engineers main purpose in earlier HOI are to make the absolut hardest situations alot easier, if you can afford them you should never go without them other then some purely defensive divisions.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

Well engineers main purpose in earlier HOI are to make the absolut hardest situations alot easier, if you can afford them you should never go without them other then some purely defensive divisions.

But maybe they give a dig-in bonus and thus are useful for the defence, too.

 

[Denkt]

But maybe they give a dig-in bonus and thus are useful for the defence, too.

Maybe, but they are not cheap.

 

[phantomrider]

Well engineers main purpose in earlier HOI are to make the absolut hardest situations alot easier, if you can afford them you should never go without them other then some purely defensive divisions.

I would agree and most WWII divisions had engineers as well. The question is for the game developers how they "punish" a player who decides to "save" some resources (equipment & personnel) by not having them in their divisions. All gamers sort of like to "cheat" to gain an advantage and in the 4 or 5 brigade HOI3 divisions most players didn't put in engineers so the question is how will the game developers deal with this in the HOI4 simulation. With 9+ sub units in a division you can now easily have an engineer battalion as one of them but again it will cost resources.

 

[GhengisKhan]

From the looks of it the game doesn't have an engineer unit specifically anymore only a divisional support option much in the same way there isn't armored car units anymore only a recon divisional support option.

 

[phantomrider]

From the looks of it the game doesn't have an engineer unit specifically anymore only a divisional support option much in the same way there isn't armored car units anymore only a recon divisional support option.

Thanks -- I had not picked that up but we can have the same discussion about recon battalions -- another common unit in many WWII divisions what do they add, what "subtraction" occurs in terms of combat resolution if you don't have one. Just a lot of questions about what a "good" well designed division gives you vs a poorly designed unit.

 

[Hans_Schnitzel]

Thanks -- I had not picked that up but we can have the same discussion about recon battalions -- another common unit in many WWII divisions what do they add, what "subtraction" occurs in terms of combat resolution if you don't have one. Just a lot of questions about what a "good" well designed division gives you vs a poorly designed unit.

Recon units make your division move faster. Explanation is that they scout out the best way your division can take.

 

[Secret Master]

They are much worse on the offense though compared to tanks so not a good breakthrough unit.

No more grand offensives with masses of tank destroyers? You're just determined to ruin all the division builds I developed for HOI3, aren't you?

 

[phantomrider]

No more grand offensives with masses of tank destroyers? You're just determined to ruin all the division builds I developed for HOI3, aren't you?

All the HOI3 divisions (4 or 5 subunits) seem to be already ruined for HOI4 where 8 or 9 or more subunits seem to be the norm. Now with the DWI mod (9 or 11 subunits) maybe some of those will transfer. However, the basic question remains about how the game designers (have or will) reward good division design and punish bad design in division performance in combat and/or movement.

By the way, having a division support unit assumed or actually required that simulates supply/logistics, communication, intell, military police, HQ, medical function (+/- engineers) is not a bad solution in division design as these certainly were universal in WWII armies.