What's the Best Ideas Combo for France

[Don Dre]

Hullo,

Was a big fan of EU 2 and have bought EU4 at Xmas and been obsessively playing it since :-D

Started my first Ironman game and chose France (had a fun Ottoman first play and a pretty boring Spain 2nd that went funny due to starting as 1.3 and switching to 1.4).

So far I have

- Driven England out of France
- Integrated all my starting Vassals except Foix
- Eaten Provence
- Chipping away at Burgundy which has not had the succession
- Set up an advantageous alliance with Aragon to keep Castile from making my life difficult


The ideas I picked so far are Diplomatic and Offensive. Still haven't really gotten the hang of choosing ideas and my temptation is to grab all the military ones except 'Aristocracy' and wing the other ones like I did for Ottomans.

Any suggestions? Any point in trying to tech up Naval to fight the English?


What I'd really like to achieve is

- Grab Iberian peninsula and Italy by getting a PU with Aragon
- Become HRE or Disband it

Not sure I am very interested in Colonising as I found it really boring in my Spain game

 

[pgroves]

I'm an EU2 > EU4 convert too, I tried EU3, but never got on with it, but EU4 I love. Still like to play the odd EU2/FTG game, though, sometimes (relative) simplicity can be fun, but EU4 keeps dragging me back in...

Not actually played France yet, though, unless you count winning the HYW, PU-ing and then integrating them 59 years later as England

 

[FrosT37]

France is powerful enough to both colonize the New World and conquer Europe.

As for ideas, Diplomatic and Offensive are good first choices. For third choice, you could consider Administrative (to reduce coring costs), Exploration (if you intend to colonize a bit) or Quality (to give a boost to your armies and navy).

 

[Rosey Palmer]

Economic is good. Exploration if you're going to colonize.

 

[Don Dre]

Thanks guys

Was bit hesitant to chose Admin ideas as they would reduce the number of Diplo ideas I can take.

Also is there any need for me to get all (or nearly all) Military ideas or will that make me unnecessarily powerful?

 

[unmerged(807829)]

France was also my first Ironman game back in 1.3, I had a difficult time with Austria they grew abnormally big and had a quite competent army due the fact that the are a lucky nation and there kings gave them lots of MP so for most of the game they were usually one mil tech ahead. So, becoming or disband the HRE or the Iberian nations I advice you to focus in one, if you try both its likely you won't get none.

I've manage to be number 1 in the sea, but I had help of the my colonies which gave me a high Force limit but now its different as colonial nations don't give you any force limit, so GB will most certainly outnumber and out class you in the sea.

 

[Don Dre]

Damn if I can't get my Navy decent its only a matter of time before England gobbles up Scotland (my ally) already had to concede Ireland and a Northumberland that I freed during my 100yr War win all because I couldn't get troops over to help.

Hmm maybe I will just station a permanent standing army in Scotland

 

[unmerged(807829)]

Damn if I can't get my Navy decent its only a matter of time before England gobbles up Scotland (my ally) already had to concede Ireland and a Northumberland that I freed during my 100yr War win all because I couldn't get troops over to help.

Hmm maybe I will just station a permanent standing army in Scotland

If you let GB form they will overpower you in the sea because of there NI bonus.

Keep them in check, and try to avoid England forming GB.

 

[FrosT37]

Thanks guys

Was bit hesitant to chose Admin ideas as they would reduce the number of Diplo ideas I can take.

Also is there any need for me to get all (or nearly all) Military ideas or will that make me unnecessarily powerful?

Don't bother going with Quantity. You will never lack neither money or manpower.

 

[Gundi]

France doesn't strictly need military ideas, but stacking lots of bonuses together is never a bad thing. Offensive or defensive would both be good for France, and you might want to take one if you plan on being particularly aggressive. And, I mean, you're France. You probably are.

 

[Don Dre]

... And, I mean, you're France. You probably are.

Haha so very true

 

[wolffrnd]

Core Ideas Groups for me on almost all countries....

Admin: Innovative
Diplo: Diplomatic
Mil: Offensive, Defensive, and Quality

These 5 are my core Idea Groups that I take. The other 3 all depend on what my goals are.

If I am going to colonize at all, then Expansion is a must. Sometimes, Expansion is taken just for the bonuses to diplo-relations, and a little bit of colonization of like Africa or northern Asia (for a country like Russia). Plus, the only time I take Exploration, is if I am planning on doing a lot of colonizing (ie going to the Americas). However, if I am planning on staying in Europe and North Africa I rarely take either Expansion or Exploration. Though, Expansion's diplo-relation bonuses can be useful, I just find there are usually other things I prefer to take.

Religious is another choice that I find that I do take very often. The bonus Missionary and Missionary Strength is nice if you expand into the East. Plus, the Better Relations Over Time is not to be under estimated. Also, a lot of the Religious events are quite good. Finally, that CB is a great thing to have, and is almost worth taking this Idea Group in itself.

Economic Ideas are OK, and I do consider taking them if I find I am having a lot of inflation. However, I usually only take them if I am going for a more peaceful Economy based game. Also, the Trade Ideas are the same thing. For me, Economic and Trade go hand in hand.

Often for me, it comes down to either Naval or Quantity as the last Idea Group. Naval Ideas are almost core for me. I find they are so useful for having a stronger Navy. Quantity Ideas are if I want an even bigger Army. Really, between the two, it just comes down to which I feel I need more in the end game. Both have their uses, and I rarely ever even consider taking both in the same game.


Those ideas I didn't mention...

Espionage can be fun, but more for a smaller nation. I am not a fan for France.
Administrative is more for Merc buying countries like Burgundy.
Aristocratic is just not in a good place, if for no other reason than its bad events.


So, for me, I would say my base Idea Groups as France are....

Admin: Innovative, Religious
Diplo: Diplomatic, Expansion, Naval
Mil: Offensive, Defensive, and Quality
With Naval sometimes being switched out for Quantity.

 

[delpiero1234]

Take administrative. I am currently playing an Ottoman Ironman game and chose administrative first and I can tell you that Adaptability is probably the single most powerful idea in EU IV since it reduces coring time and coring cost. Since there is (almost) no more vassal feeding in 1.4 conquest is the only way to expand and you will save lots of admin points and lots of time with adaptability (it's the 2nd idea in Administrative Ideas group).

I played France in 1.3 and got bored after roughly 200 years because there were too many coalitions. France is probably the easiest nation in EU IV.

As France I would pick the following idea groups in this order:

Administrative (coring cost & time reducton; once completed allows powerful decisions to be enacted)
Diplomatic
Economic (lowers inflations; once completed together with administrative allows one of the best western decisions, Judiciary Act to be enacted)
Expansion (conquest of India, allows colonization)
Naval (needed if you want to compete with other naval powers)
Offensive


France doesn't really need (many) military ideas because it already kicks ass without them. If you don't want to conquer India then don't take Expansion but innovative or religious instead.

 

[wolffrnd]

Take administrative. I am currently playing an Ottoman Ironman game and chose administrative first and I can tell you that Adaptability is probably the single most powerful idea in EU IV since it reduces coring time and coring cost. Since there is (almost) no more vassal feeding in 1.4 conquest is the only way to expand and you will save lots of admin points and lots of time with adaptability (it's the 2nd idea in Administrative Ideas group).

I played France in 1.3 and got bored after roughly 200 years because there were too many coalitions. France is probably the easiest nation in EU IV.

As France I would pick the following idea groups in this order:

Administrative (coring cost & time reducton; once completed allows powerful decisions to be enacted)
Diplomatic
Economic (lowers inflations; once completed together with administrative allows one of the best western decisions, Judiciary Act to be enacted)
Expansion (conquest of India, allows colonization)
Naval (needed if you want to compete with other naval powers)
Offensive


France doesn't really need (many) military ideas because it already kicks ass without them. If you don't want to conquer India then don't take Expansion but innovative or religious instead.

You bring up some very good points about Administrative Ideas. My last France game was 1.3 when you could feed your vassals. That coring cost reduction could be worth taking this Idea Group alone. Hmmm...I need to play another game as France, and try this out!

 

[spoffy]

Diplomacy, Offensive, Innovative, Quality is my preferred opening as France. After that I sometimes switch things up, but I usually pick Administrative and Economic as well.

• Diplomacy is a must, it helps with your starting vassals and France is rich enough that you can diplomatically vassalize a lot of smaller countries and expand that way.
• Offensive gives you better generals, more manpower, more discipline and Forced March is a godsend for chasing down and wiping enemy stacks. France already has good manpower and discipline, but more is better.
• Innovative helps keep your prestige high, your tech costs low (so more MP for ideas/buildings), your war exhaustion down, and most importantly, your army tradition high. Combine with Offensive and you'll have above-average generals all the time.
• Quality gives your army even more punch. By this time you complete these four ideas you should be able to crush anything short of Prussia/Sweden.
• Administrative lowers core costs, boosts your economy, gives you access to some good decisions, and the mercenary cost reduction stacks with Innovative to get you -50% merc cost. You're not Burgundy when it comes to lowering merc costs, but you'll probably have a ton of money anyway, so why not be able to field more?
• Economic sends your economy into the stratosphere, gives access to some good decisions, and lets you drop buildings everywhere. By the end of the game as France I usually have level 6 buildings everywhere in L'Hexagon.

The rest doesn't really matter once you have all these. Naval helps you punch above your weight on the seas, but you'll never really match most of the naval powers. Throw Aristocratic into the mix for another Diplomat, stronger cavalry, more manpower and even more shock for your generals. Defensive combines with Innovative to boost your army tradition even more and give you cheaper armies and morale, but you're France, you're not going to be fighting defensively even when you're on the defensive. :laugh: Exploration/Expansion is necessary if you want to expand outside Europe. Religious is good if you switch religions during the Reformation-- a Reformed (not Protestant) France usually can get a CB on the whole world.

The only ideas I really don't ever take are Quantity, Espionage and Trade. Trade isn't France's strength, Quantity is just overkill (and I hate pairing it with Quality), and Espionage sucks.

 

[Don Dre]

If I continue my alliance with Aragon and use them as a Naval battering Ram to beat the British into submission will that work and allow me to forget about Naval?

 

[delpiero1234]

If I continue my alliance with Aragon and use them as a Naval battering Ram to beat the British into submission will that work and allow me to forget about Naval?

That depends on if the Iberian Wedding happens or not. It's also better to conquer the Iberian peninsula anyways.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

ADM:

ADM and Religion are the two strongest in the game, even over the much-adored innovative. ADM gives the core reduction, but also adds force limit, gold (via production efficiency finisher boost), and 6% discipline from a decision. The mercs themselves can be useful also.

Religion, in addition to making it trivial to convert most holdings, really helps with +stab events and cheaper stab cost while also giving a great CB (cleansing heresy is one of the game's best). Better relations over time is still useful and will be more so in 1.5 again.

DIP:

Diplomatic: Diprep, more relations, faster claims (claims are very important now), and an extra diplomat make this one of the strongest groups overall, and it was boosted in 1.4 allowing you to cancel marriages w/o stab hits.

Exploration or Expansion: Expansion is better overall, with more diprep and relations, but if you really need to find land to colonize quickly for some reason, exploration is superior. Your choice.

The other diplo ones are pretty situational.

MIL:

Offensive: Best tree for military. It sprinkles in direct combat effectiveness, adds FL + Manpower, and gives you access to the great forced march ability.

Plutocratic: If you have access to it, it's also really good.

Defensive: Situationally better than offensive. The morale + tradition is nice, as is reinforce speed. The attrition is nasty if you can get a large nation and take advantage of it.

Quality: Boosting infantry, cavalry, and artillery by 10% and discipline by 15% (!) puts out a lot of damage.

Anyway, here's my generic idea group preferences:

ADM, Religious, Diplomatic, Expansion, Offensive, Quality. This gives you a nice mix of heavy damage, +4 relations, and the ability to core and manage pretty much anything.

France might be able to put off religious, opening with the likes of ADM, Diplomatic, and Offensive ideas (chasing shattered retreats for an instant slaughter is really good; it lets you beat some large alliances by killing troops before they can help each other in a lot of cases).

 

[CyberianK]

In my current Ironman France game I am in 1570 and:

Have the following vassals:
England,
Portugal,
Aragon,
Styria,
Mecklenburg (Elector),
Saxony (Elector),
Palatinate (Elector),
Papal State (I am Papal Controller)
I am currently annexing Holland and Gallicia, Integrating Hungary which I got PU from Austrian Succession war and working on making Castille a vassal too
Bohemia is the current Emperor but I am close in vassalising him as well that makes me the Emperor then which I need cause I am currently at 12/10 realtions

Meanwhile England and Portugal are colonizing for me and I made Castillian Brazil into Cosmopolitan Brazil. I also have a small army in NA that is beginning on killing the Natives and making them into Colonial Nations. My one colonist is expanding in the direction of India.

So I think it is perfectly possible to dominate the mainland while colonizing as well in both direction (new world and Asia/Pacific). You just don't colonize via colonists but with military might.

I chose Diplomacy first to more quickly vassalize and be able to support more vassals and alliances. After that I chose Innovation.

This tech is so awesome. Especially because it stacks with the later 10% french bonus to save even more points. Also you have to consider the awesome Innovation EVents and Decisions that get activated. So it is not only the idea itself. But I found the war weariness reduction and the less tradition decay to be very helpful.
Then Expansion for even more Diplo Relations as well as some basic Colonization just to get one province in every part of the world to start conquering there.

The next will be: Offensive for Forced March
Trade for Merchants
naval for more Trade ships and Thallosacracy
Economics
Administrative