What's the best German opening?

[Driver]

First, I'm curious as to what yields the best results with NFs:
a) Going for Rhineland, Army Innovations, Anschluss, Sudetenland, USSR treaty (for fast Panzer 3s), then straight down for Industrial Effort 1 and 2, and finally the extra research slot.
b) Going for Industrial effort first, Panzer 3s, then the territory from Aschluss and Sudetenland.

Basically, is it better to get those 12 civilian factories fist, or get all of Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia?

Second, my construction in the first year is mainly focused on 3 refineries, followed by 3 columns of military factories for every refinery after that.

Should I build any civilian factories at all?

Third, should I build any light tanks at all if I rush Panzer 3s?

I find that I can quickly build 12 default light tank divisions and declare war on Poland by December of 37 and run through Paris by 38, but if I focus on mediums I'm delayed by a year or two but better prepared. The problem then becomes having too many light tanks and not enough mediums, and I get stuck with having 12 divisions into 1940 because of a tungsten shortage that basically forces me to invade Spain, Portugal, and Sweden before I can run into the USSR.

I suppose I could just build more light tank divisions but I find the difference between light and mediums to be a lot like cutting butter with a cold and a hot knife.

 

[ThuderLizard2]

I usually take Rhineland and then bee-line through the industrial line to get the extra research slot. To get an early Anschluss I force deploy divisions to meet the manpower requirement. I take Sudetenland before Reassert Eastern Claims because you need at least 1M manpower to fire Danzig. I may take another NF or 2 before I have the manpower to take Danzig.

For construction - I build 3-4 civ factories and then focus entirely on MF with focus on infantry eq., support and art. Also focus on fighters and light tanks with some motorized.

I usually take out Poland by early '39 and then use around Maginot to take out Benelux and France by mid-39 with a DOW on Soviets by late '39. I don't have any mediums by then but Soviet don't either. Send a bunch of divisions behind the Soviet lines by naval landing in Leningrad.

 

[scroggin]

I go for rhineland first so the WT has got more time to disappear. Then the focuses that give industry and the tank bonus. A delayed anschlus can mean austria builds factories and equipment for you rather than doing it yourself, so its not entirely lost even if its less efficient. The light tank2’s built at the start of the game can be upgraded to mechanised artillery3 or tankdestroyer3 later in the game and be used in your motorised divisions.

 

[bERt0r]

The question is SP or MP. Cheese or honorable gameplay? Historical focuses or not? Generally its best to stay on the historical route to keep WT low for as long as possible. You want to have that edge over the allies for as long as possible while not giving the USSR enough time to recover from their national spirit hangover. That said, the AI is not smart enough to defend the shores of the UK in the early years so an early Sealion is a cheesy way to finish off the allies very fast. I don't think that you need to build civilian factories, you gain so many from your conquests anyway. What you need is oil and rubber so build some plants. Medium tanks are nice and all but the war is ususally won in the air. Make sure to build enough fighters and CAS.

 

[Driver]

I go for rhineland first so the WT has got more time to disappear. Then the focuses that give industry and the tank bonus. A delayed anschlus can mean austria builds factories and equipment for you rather than doing it yourself, so its not entirely lost even if its less efficient. The light tank2’s built at the start of the game can be upgraded to mechanised artillery3 or tankdestroyer3 later in the game and be used in your motorised divisions.

WT isn't an issue for me, I'll explain why in a bit but first, I find you get a lot more industry if you declare on Yugoslavia as soon as you hit 50PP. Basically:
>Run Rhineland
>Start pumping 96 (I like to keep it at multiples of 24) infantry divisions as soon as they're ready to deploy
>Immediately start training and position them on the border of Czechoslovakia
>At 50PP (35 days in game) start fabricating Slovenia for 250 days
>Next NF is your choice, but I like Army to get USSR treaty faster (105 days)
>NF after that is Anschluss (175 days)
>NF after that is Sudetenland (245 days)
>Green army should preposition itself inside Czech forts
>Original army on the border of Yugo
>I usually disband the Austrian army but you can keep it if you want
>5 days later declare on Yugo
>Czechs declare you
>Win two wars
>Gain lots of stuff

From there you have two options, you can:
a) Slow it down and start building the KGM and medium tanks
b) Rush LArm divisions and Danzig NF

If you choose b, WW2 starts in 1937 and KGM takes a little longer to develop. You'll also not be able to produce any medium tanks until you either invade Portugal through France and Spain or Sweden though Denmark.

Do note that you'll still have to invade the latter if you want to produce more than 30-45 factory worth of medium tanks.

The question is SP or MP. Cheese or honorable gameplay? Historical focuses or not? Generally its best to stay on the historical route to keep WT low for as long as possible. You want to have that edge over the allies for as long as possible while not giving the USSR enough time to recover from their national spirit hangover. That said, the AI is not smart enough to defend the shores of the UK in the early years so an early Sealion is a cheesy way to finish off the allies very fast. I don't think that you need to build civilian factories, you gain so many from your conquests anyway. What you need is oil and rubber so build some plants. Medium tanks are nice and all but the war is ususally won in the air. Make sure to build enough fighters and CAS.

SP and Cheese by my own set of rules: Absolutely no allies, just paint the entire map gray. I do go with Molotov-Ribbentrop though, mostly because I believe it gives the Soviets claims on the Balkans which means less countries for me to DoW.

Anyways, this is why I don't really care about WT. A boosted USA makes the game more interesting. Soviets are a cakewalk even if I get bored of naval warfare and invade in 43.

 

[bERt0r]

Like I said, directly attacking the UK and France would probably be faster. Just paradrop them.

 

[JerkyJerry]

There is a form in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-pre-war-buildup.1032847/page-2#post-23107963 that may have some useful information?

 

[Driver]

There is a form in this thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-pre-war-buildup.1032847/page-2#post-23107963 that may have some useful information?

I see a lot of people and guides advocate free market. I guess with that and the civil guy you can get a good discount on civilian factories as well as some free ones for trading the steel away. Are they worth it though? Seems like they take up valuable military factory and refinery space.

 

[amalric de g.]

I see a lot of people and guides advocate free market. I guess with that and the civil guy you can get a good discount on civilian factories as well as some free ones for trading the steel away. Are they worth it though? Seems like they take up valuable military factory and refinery space.

You should never ever build CIC as Germany in SP, Austria, Czech, Yugo, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Greece, Belgium, Netherlands, Poland and France under your hood and you are swimming in CIC and MIC. Usually you run out of rubber and oil for the MIC.

In my games i use only around 200-250 MIC the rest is for fun. Even with 250 MIC my stockpiles are allways full.

You can use Freemarket only if you plan a late war.

 

[Meglok]

Completely agree. I am even converting CIC by about 41. What you do have to do build refineries. Lots of refineries. Not necessarily for oil assuming you grab Saudi Arabia and Iraq, but for rubber. Planes and trucks need rubber and you need lots of both. Even if you own the Suez and can run convoys from the Med the Allies will raid them in the Indian Ocean. And until Japan gets off the stick rubber is mostly an Allied resource.

 

[mursolini]

It depends on what you deem best, but mathmatically, "best" as in having most factories opening is to justify on GB and then sealion in 1936. For this, TAC are key, as you need to have strong air bombing in North Sea, for your fleet and transports to survive this. Put at least 15 MIC on TACs, ignore fighters as they dont have the range, so do enemy fighters don`t have range to inrefere. Heavy fighters would probably be your desired fighter, due to range, but they won`t come in time for sea lion. Also build some light tanks, transform your armor and motorised to good templates.

After you destroy UK, allies will capitulate. You will get land in Canada, so build ports and infra there, also justify DOW on Canada, and get your troops there before war starts. Once you Dow, US will enter, so both would be killed without strong army, by late 38 or so.

After that, it doesn`t matter, you can clean up the rest of the world in the remaining time.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

I dont think building civilian factories is a good idea even in the first year. Aside from the fact you have much more CIC after Anschluss, fate of Czech and beyond, building a few factories before the industrial efforts wont make that much difference. What does make a difference is that hose few military factories in 36 help get industrial efficiency up sooner. Also, those handful of factories can help produce more infantry and infantry support to get Anschluss, Czech asap.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Also, why build refineries until 39. Build military factories first then build refineries. The sooner military factories are up the sooner industrial efficiency rolls along.

 

[Driver]

Also, why build refineries until 39. Build military factories first then build refineries. The sooner military factories are up the sooner industrial efficiency rolls along.

Is there any benefit to opening up 3 lines of tanks to build efficiency for each if you know you'll have 45 factories invested later on, or does the math not work like that?

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Is there any benefit to opening up 3 lines of tanks to build efficiency for each if you know you'll have 45 factories invested later on, or does the math not work like that?

I dont think it matters. Whether you start 3 in one line or 1 x 1 x 1. At least that is what I have been told.

 

[bERt0r]

The efficiency of each factory is calculated separately.