What's the best county cluster in this game?

[IanReSc]

Bohemia can be a real powerhouse, if you fortify it. I was thinking about using it as a starting spot to go for the slavic union achievement.

Playing in Russia is really tough. I always wanted to do a run there, but other than Kiev no area really seems atractive.

 

[TheDungen]

Yes, but they are very expensive. (Several years' income - usually several thousand gold.) Make sure you save up to avoid going into debt!

Oh yes that's one of the things I did in my mod too, I lowered the price to two years worth of income but is also had it remove the prosperity which amounts to quite a lot of gold in of itself.

 

[Zsrai]

Yes, but they are very expensive. (Several years' income - usually several thousand gold.) Make sure you save up to avoid going into debt!

Usually worth doing as a Tribal, since your tax income is so low the price is pretty cheap. You can easily make up the cost in a raiding run or maybe two.

 

[WJS]

For Russia, Kiev is great, and the area has potential similar to Bohemia. Another area with decent potential is Vladimir and Yaroslavl, but it's very poor in the early start dates (held by landlocked Finnic tribes surrounded by more tribal land, so not even raiding is going to get you much gold). When I play there, I'll sometimes raid settlements I can't loot, just in the hopes of securing hostages for ransom.

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

Wow, I'm impressed that my first thread here has gained such traction. Guess we could make a more localized version of this thread (like, best territories in Northern Europe, Britain, Africa etc)

I've been playing with Tibet (which doesn't have many great counties), and really, having the Silk Road makes that barren range of mountains really lucrative! Also, I got filthy rich with Ghana and its many Trade Posts. You need to blob hard in Europe to match the income, or as a MR dominate all Mediterranean trade.

Also, I'm surprised no one mentioned anything in Britain lol. I thought about Essex + Kent or something like this as well

 

[Manbearpig]

You get massive bonuses to your capital, less bonuses to the capital duchy, no bonuses to de jure kingdom/empire, and a malus to holdings outside the de jure.
So I always centralize all my holdings within one duchy. The only time I break from this is if I am playing in a region with Silk Road Trade Posts.

 

[Manbearpig]

Taizz in Yemen is great because it is the only duchy with 2 Silk Road trade posts. It's not the greatest duchy (or area in general), but it can still make you a load of money because of the Silk Road. The Kingdom of Yemen isn't too hard to form either.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Duchies#List_of_duchies This is the list to look at if you want to choose based on size.

Didn't they just change it so that Socotra isn't part of Taizz anymore? It used to be my favorite as well for that reason

 

[Naughtius Maximus]

Didn't they just change it so that Socotra isn't part of Taizz anymore? It used to be my favorite as well for that reason

It's still worthwhile to grab Taizz and Socotra. Just never make either of the duchy titles and you won't have the too many duchy issue.

 

[Manbearpig]

It's still worthwhile to grab Taizz and Socotra. Just never make either of the duchy titles and you won't have the too many duchy issue.

Of course. I usually grab Muscat as well when I am in the area, and hold all three personally to fund whatever conquest I would be engaging in

 

[Zsrai]

Didn't they just change it so that Socotra isn't part of Taizz anymore? It used to be my favorite as well for that reason

Did they? I've been tinkering with Stellaris more than CK2 lately, and playing CK2 with overhauls at that. That makes me sad.

 

[Less2]

If you want quick, cheap, supreme power, go for Barcelona.

Pros:
3 Castles.
Coastal.

Directly owning multiple capital castles gives incredible levies. There's very few locations that start with 3 castles (Paris is another, but not coastal). With a good marshal set to train troops you can quickly get 10-15k levies to raise and ship out anywhere. Rest of the duchy is OK, mostly coastal. It's not going to be the late game money-maker a Flanders with all cities is, but you can conquer an empire to make money.

 

[Coalsack]

I think that Sevilla is better than Barcelona in every regard, but it's very far and if you're on the middle of the Reconquista, Barcelona may be a closer choice. Aside that, someone else is infuriated by the addition of those 3-holding counties in Leon, Castille and Toledo. I'd rather have no extra counties than a having those jokes of a county!

 

[CeeBod]

Yes, but they are very expensive. (Several years' income - usually several thousand gold.) Make sure you save up to avoid going into debt!

Wait so the cost is based on your income? That makes zero sense though! I thought the reason each one was getting more expensive for me was just because expanding for the 4th time is much more cost / time / effort than expanding the first time. The last time I expanded it cost me nearly 2k and as I had a really good income and was at peace at the time I decided to go into debt for a few months. Bad mistake - I had the events for smugglers, bandits, the peasants not respecting me, etc all fire in every single county in my demesne within days!

 

[Ilion]

Wow! Note to self: never let treasury go negative!

 

[SSA]

I'd say the Egypt region is probably the best region financially in the whole game, if you own Egypt you can likely have access to loot everything in your way, and you get to have easy access to Abrahamic holy sites, right near your footsteps, many of which are great trade post provinces.

 

[jonjowett]

I'd say the Egypt region is probably the best region financially in the whole game, if you own Egypt you can likely have access to loot everything in your way, and you get to have easy access to Abrahamic holy sites, right near your footsteps, many of which are great trade post provinces.

The trouble with sites towards the end of trade routes is that any war or siege "upstream" ruins your income. As Egypt is at the very end of the Silk Road, this problem can be quite frequent. Especially as you're recommending raiding in the Indian Ocean!

The rest of your point is valid though.

Bonus fact: Cairo/Fustat is a Zunist holy site.

 

[WJS]

If you want quick, cheap, supreme power, go for Barcelona.

Pros:
3 Castles.
Coastal.

Directly owning multiple capital castles gives incredible levies. There's very few locations that start with 3 castles (Paris is another, but not coastal). With a good marshal set to train troops you can quickly get 10-15k levies to raise and ship out anywhere. Rest of the duchy is OK, mostly coastal. It's not going to be the late game money-maker a Flanders with all cities is, but you can conquer an empire to make money.

That reminds me. Once I made a superpower custom empire by holding the kingdoms of Aragon, Sardinia and Corsica, and Jerusalem. And I had lost the lands of Jerusalem. But between Sardinia and Barcelona, I had all the military and naval power I needed.

 

[USAF_777]

Thessalonika/Adrianopolis/Athens is often overlooked due to its proximity to Constantinople, but it makes a great capital if you want a change of pace from that.

• Spain: Barcelona + Valencia, with Mallorca as a vassal MR. (By the time you own Seville + Granada it's probably not worth moving.)

This is one of my favorites. I usually hand off the non-coastal counties in Barcelona so that I can use the extra demesne limite for more coastal counties to ship troops around quicker, and/or more castles in the capital.

 

[Manbearpig]

Thessalonika/Adrianopolis/Athens is often overlooked due to its proximity to Constantinople, but it makes a great capital if you want a change of pace from that.



This is one of my favorites. I usually hand off the non-coastal counties in Barcelona so that I can use the extra demesne limite for more coastal counties to ship troops around quicker, and/or more castles in the capital.

I didn't know there were people that ever raised their own ships

 

[Ilion]

I didn't know there were people that ever raised their own ships

Yeah, as much as possible, I let the vassals eat the cost of maintaining fleets. But, I also generally use an individual fleet only for a few months.

===========
Speaking (as some comments above were) of development in coastal provinces, consider personally holding a city in your capital county (if it is coastal).

- Cons: the "Wrong Holding Type" malus, meaning that the revenue generated by the city is halved *and* its garrison will not reinforce (making it very vulnerable to siege once the castle(s) and temples(s) prior to it have been sieged-down);
- Pros: you get *all* the final total of revenue generated by the city; so, with a well developed market *and* port (and even moreso if there is a trade center in the county), this is still going to be more gold than your capital castle generates. BTW, the "Collect Taxes" steward action applies to a city *if* you personally hold it.

- Conclusion: You trade the possibility of raising levees from one holding in your demesne for increased revenue from it -- but, raising levees is episodic, whereas collecting taxes is on-going.

== In a game using the CK2+ mod ==
Testing this idea, at a still moderate level of development in both the capital castle and a city I hold (and with a trade center in the county), I'm getting 10%+ more income from the city than the castle.

By way of comparison, with "Highly Tax Oriented Burgher Focus" and "Low Burgher Obligations", the revenue I'm receiving from the city I personally hold is a bit more than 3x the revenue I'm receiving from an identically developed mayor-controlled city in the same county.