What's the best county cluster in this game?

[ShinigamiKenji]

Somewhat new to the forum, but I haven't seen this question before.

So we all know how rad are Sicily or Flanders because of their holdings and being coastal. But this is a question I've never seen asked:

What's the best county cluster in the world?

I'm not talking about a single county or duchy, but the best 6-8 adjacent counties for you to hold (preferrably across 1 or 2 de jure duchies for vassal count reasons).

Here are my top choices (in no particular ranking):

• Duchy of Flanders

Starting with a classic. Packing a whooping 27 holdings across 6 counties, most of them being coastal, this is surely one of the best clusters in the world. I think enough positives were already written about this one, so let's move on to the next obvious choice.

• Duchy of Sicily

Another pick from "Best duchies in the game". Sicily has 23 holdings across 6 counties, one of the highest holding total for a single duchy, and all of them are coastal. It's also located in a central position in the Mediterranean, making it much better-positioned than Flanders for some action. Now for the next obvious choice.

• Thrace + Optimatoi (+ Opsikion)

Well, anything that includes Constantinople with its Theodosian Walls and holdings built for free should be included. Thrace alone has 13 holdings along 3 counties, and Optimatoi across the Bosphorus has 2 more counties with 7 holdings, for a total of 20 holdings in 5 counties, all of them coastal. And have I mentioned free holdings and the best walls of the game right at the start?

Adding Opsikion will increase that to 31 holdings along 8 counties, and since you start with Imperial Administration, you can increase your demesne limit via Centralization laws without penalizing vassal limit too much.

It's also in a strategic (if a bit dangerous) position for expansion. Not to mention that you may get Blood of Alexander and revive Hellenism here....

• Cairo/Alexandria/Damietta

The Cairo+Alexandria combo boasts 22 holdings across 7 holdings, 3 of them coastal and Trade Posts in the 2 most valuable holdings of the region. It's usually a stable region, being the center of Egypt and such. The catch is that only 2 counties have their coast in the Mediterranean, which makes it harder to embark troops.

Alternatively, Damietta offers a more cohese demesne, 16 holdings in 4 counties, and better access to the Mediterranean, at the cost of a Trade Post in either Alexandria or Cairo.

• Kuru + Mathura

This is an inland region in India so it must have a lot to offer to make up for that. Well, it delivers: 27 holdings in 6 counties, with 2 Trade Posts and the Silk Road passing through 4 counties. Definitely you'll be filthy rich, and it's not like the Indian subcontinent lack expansion potential even for landlocked territories...

 

[WJS]

Can't go wrong with Baghdad + Jibal.

 

[_Perun_]

Chera Nadu in the southern India. 5 counties, all coastal, one silk road post, amazing location for capital.

Sardinia + Corsica. 5 + 2 counties, all coastal, impossible to assault without ships. Yummy.

Taiz. Nerfed but still nice. Many holdings, silk road, great location. Also, nobody will stop you from holding personally the whole kingdom.

 

[CharlieMRCR]

Uppaland + Scania + Gotland (but don't make the Jarldom) has served my Viking conquests very well.

 

[Coalsack]

Instead of Thrake + Optimatoi, I usually go with Thrake + Adrianople + Abydos when playing on the ERE. 11 duchies, 9 of them coastal. Lesbos and Philippopolis have ony 3 holdings tho (What is strange, since Philippopolis always was a reasonably large city).

I grew fond of the Gurjara Mandala + Saurashtra + Lata combo when playing on India. Again, 11 counties, 9 of them coastal.

Back on Spain, I usually grab the straits as soon as I expels the muslims from there. Sevilla + Granada + Tangiers make an awesome combo, of, again 11 counties, 9 of them coastal, albeit this time the capital (Sevilla) is landlocked, so isn't as exposed to raids as, say, Granada or Tangiers.

I'll be honest. I've always disliked islands, for some reason, and Sicily isn't an exception. I avoid them as the plage, so my combo for Italy is a more humble Latium + Tuscany (+ Pisa) combo. 9 counties, 6 of them coastal. Lately I've been able to squeeze the first two with my Spanish straits combo, so then I ditch Pisa.

 

[deadhand13]

I'm a fan of Latium, Tuscany and Pisa. Isle de France and Flanders is good. I used to like Essex and Wessex when in Britain. When in Germany, I've taken a liking to Franconia and Swabia. I still haven't figured out something in Scandinavia that I'm totally satisfied with.

 

[Wam]

Sjaelland,Fyn + Slesvig, Holstein + Bremen, Hamborg = Viking Sea King
Total of about 30 holdings, although that is from memory, so might be more.
Three three-county duchies, so you can easily pawn off vassalage of the third county to a neighbouring duke and remove negative opinion from the count. Or give one to your heir, keep him close.
If you want, you can add Scania (6 holdings I think), but since it’s part of 4 county duchy, it is not worth the trouble. Plus gotta keep room in your demesne for conquered county’s

 

[majdavlk]

Probably somewhere on the silk road near china, or maybe on the saharan trade route.

 

[TheDungen]

Oman al Bahrain and the kingdom of Yemen is kind of nice too. Loads of coastal provinces, and all the non coastal provinces are conveniently in the same duchy.

 

[IanReSc]

You can never go wrong with Sauvira in India. Vive counties, two of which are coastal, one with a silk road trade post. 24 holdings and you have the mountains as a natural barrier against the muslims. You can even add another 6 county duchy to your demesne as Bhakkar is north of it. Quite frankly, that entire strip along the Indus river is good. Lahore, Multan, you have a wide variety to chose from.

In general India is a great spot.

 

[Rags17]

:
I'll be honest. I've always disliked islands, for some reason, and Sicily isn't an exception. I avoid them like the plague . . .
:

I see what you did there !

 

[Zsrai]

Taizz in Yemen is great because it is the only duchy with 2 Silk Road trade posts. It's not the greatest duchy (or area in general), but it can still make you a load of money because of the Silk Road. The Kingdom of Yemen isn't too hard to form either.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Duchies#List_of_duchies This is the list to look at if you want to choose based on size.

 

[jonjowett]

Here are some things that I look for:

• Large number of counties in the capital duchy
• Ability to have 2-3 additional baronies in capital (already built, or empty slots, or as-yet-non-existent slots + crown focus)
  
• Coastal counties, with a good nearby base for a vassal MR
  
• Trade post counties (Silk Road or Saharan) - the closer to the source, the better.
  
• Default kingdom/empire capital (for roleplay)

On the other hand, after you've had any reasonably-OK demesne for a century, moving anywhere else would be a mistake. (Due to tech, prosperity, buildings, hospitals, county modifiers, etc etc.)

That said, here are a few ideas:

• India: Chera Nadu + Konkana + misc downstream coastal silk road counties. (No baronies.) You'll be RICH.
  
  
• Mali: Ghana + all western trade post counties. If the gold mines are active, you'll be even richer! (For reference: I currently have 1 gold mine active and 6 trade posts, not fully-upgraded. Each trade post produces 80-110 per year. Fully-upgraded silk road trade posts (from the empire in India I gave away) produce a maximum of 70ish, unless you have a trade contract and/or golden age.)
  
  
• Nomad: Capital in Tana, own every county the silk road passes through (so it never gets blocked). If you don't get bored with winning, move your capital to a better coastal trade post county (eg. Alexandria) later. Build temples to defend your trade posts!
  
  
• France: Flanders or Normandy (both are size 6 duchies, with 5 coastal), plus extra baronies in your capital.
  
  
• Spain: Barcelona + Valencia, with Mallorca as a vassal MR. (By the time you own Seville + Granada it's probably not worth moving.)
  
  
• Italy: Milan (large, plague exclusion, de jure capital). (Sicily and Sardinia are arguably better, but the plague will really mess you up.)
  
  
• Inland Germany: Bohemia + Moravia. (You'll have to do a lot of development, but there's serious potential here. Also vaguely historical.)
  
  
• Muslim in Middle East: Baghdad or Hijaz (they are both large duchies and very obvious/historical places for a Muslim capital).

 

[AntZudan]

What's the advantage of coastal counties?

 

[AntZudan]

What's the advantage of coastal counties?

 

[AntZudan]

What's the advantage of coastal counties?

 

[WJS]

Coastal counties allow fast movement of troops via boat, and for Trade Posts by (vassal) Merchant Republics.

 

[InsaneGreyjoy]

I played this way only once and i can't say that it's the best way posible but Sardinia and Corsica is a good way to feel protected. AI is not that good in naval invasions. So i once nearly beaten Byzantium this way (war for independence). I didn't win only because of king's death in battle. Also any cluster which includes several silk road posts can be ridiculously lucrative (provided China is not a mess)

 

[Serenity84]

Cities in coastal counties get port buildings to make them money. And then they pay part of that in taxes to you.

 

[TheDungen]

Taizz in Yemen is great because it is the only duchy with 2 Silk Road trade posts. It's not the greatest duchy (or area in general), but it can still make you a load of money because of the Silk Road. The Kingdom of Yemen isn't too hard to form either.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Duchies#List_of_duchies This is the list to look at if you want to choose based on size.

Depends on how long you hold it, keep the prosperity up and you'll start getting new holding slots quite quickly.