You think that extra 50-100 years changes absolutely anything in that regard?
And there is a 0% chance the game will start post the fall of the Roman Empire. Calling for 1453 is useless.
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And there is a 0% chance the game will start post the fall of the Roman Empire. Calling for 1453 is useless.
It was the chosen start date for MEIOU & Taxes and it proved to be a very good start date that ticks all the boxes of what is needed in a start date.
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Important thing to remember of course is that we aren't advocating for our preferences anymore than we can advocate for candidates in elections held last year. We are arguing our guesses as to what has already been selected.
The absolute maximum range in my opinion is 1356-1836. It will probably be smaller than that, particularly in regards to the start date.
The one thing I would emphasise is that if your guess is predicated on Tinto self-restricting the time frame to offer space for a hypothetical 'other' game, such as the Napoleonic Wars or a post-peace of Westphalia game, your guess is almost certainly wrong, because I think Paradox has been burned a bit recently with some of their game choices (Lamplighter League, Imperator, Star Trek: Infinite). I would be extremely surprised if they were restricting the timeframe of their flagship franchise for the sake of a niche game that could very well prove another bellyflop commercially, and which would need separate investment to bring to fruition.
The absolute maximum range in my opinion is 1356-1836. It will probably be smaller than that, particularly in regards to the start date.
The one thing I would emphasise is that if your guess is predicated on Tinto self-restricting the time frame to offer space for a hypothetical 'other' game, such as the Napoleonic Wars or a post-peace of Westphalia game, your guess is almost certainly wrong, because I think Paradox has been burned a bit recently with some of their game choices (Lamplighter League, Imperator, Star Trek: Infinite). I would be extremely surprised if they were restricting the timeframe of their flagship franchise for the sake of a niche game that could very well prove another bellyflop commercially, and which would need separate investment to bring to fruition.
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Wasn't that 14:53 sweden time?
1453 is a possibility. I think it's unlikely because of Byzantium, but it is a possibility.
More likely I think the posting time is Johan's way of telling us what this almost certainly is without confirmation. He knew we would inevitably make the guess from the context of the post.
No. It was 14:53 Swedish time. I, living in Finland, am 1 hour ahead of Sweden and for me it's
So idk, check your timezone?
- Dec 14, 1999
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Dev Diaries are usually scheduled to go live at 15.00.
I posted it at 14.53 just to joke with people who are fans of Byzantium. AND it created a lot of speculation thats super-funny to read.
Maybe I should post the next one at 12.04 or 10.71, but maybe then the "eastern roman empire fanboys" at the office will blind me and cut of my nose..
If the start date decision is already decided... then here is what I think the logic on choosing it was.
These are the start dates used in previous Europa Universalis games: 1399, 1419, 1444, 1453 and 1492. I think that it will be a new start date, and I would applaud this decision. Although I would love 1415, I think it is way too close to 1419, so I'll have to rule it out.
Regarding the end date, 1789, 1801, 1820 and 1821 (twice) have been used. I believe the Napoleonic Wars are a must, so either they stick to 1821, or perhaps change it to 1815 (with potential plans for a new game between 1815 and 1836) or 1836 (to link up with Victoria). Regardless, it won't make much of a difference to decide on the start date.
This leaves us with three choices:
#1 - before 1399
#2 - between 1419 and 1444
#3 - between 1453 and 1492
Of these, I feel like #3 is the least likely simply because Byzantium does not exist there, and the devs would never hear the end of it. If i were to pick a date here, perhaps 1469 when Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile married.
I am also hesitant in picking #1 because the game would drag on a bit. Although I would pick 1486, when the Treaty of Windsor was signed.
So that leaves us with #2, and I would go with 26th of March of 1431 - The Trial of Joan of Arc.
These are the start dates used in previous Europa Universalis games: 1399, 1419, 1444, 1453 and 1492. I think that it will be a new start date, and I would applaud this decision. Although I would love 1415, I think it is way too close to 1419, so I'll have to rule it out.
Regarding the end date, 1789, 1801, 1820 and 1821 (twice) have been used. I believe the Napoleonic Wars are a must, so either they stick to 1821, or perhaps change it to 1815 (with potential plans for a new game between 1815 and 1836) or 1836 (to link up with Victoria). Regardless, it won't make much of a difference to decide on the start date.
This leaves us with three choices:
#1 - before 1399
#2 - between 1419 and 1444
#3 - between 1453 and 1492
Of these, I feel like #3 is the least likely simply because Byzantium does not exist there, and the devs would never hear the end of it. If i were to pick a date here, perhaps 1469 when Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile married.
I am also hesitant in picking #1 because the game would drag on a bit. Although I would pick 1486, when the Treaty of Windsor was signed.
So that leaves us with #2, and I would go with 26th of March of 1431 - The Trial of Joan of Arc.
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The start date and end date MUST already be decided. We are speculating rather than advocating as the choice is made. But it is fun to do.
I would agree with this logic. For the end date, we know there was a debate in the Victoria team (I don't know how serious) of using 1821 as the start date and that might be something they wish to revisit in future (perhaps with an extra bookmark). Besides, that is the cap of the period EU covers and allows maximum time for the Napoleonic and Revolutionary eras. I agree with 1821.
Similarly, I believe your logic regarding the three rough choices is sound and I also believe it will fall within the 1419-1444 timeframe. I believe it will be closer to 1419 than 1444 simply because the closer you get to 1444, the less drastic the changes will be between the EU4 start and the EU5 start, to the point you may as well say 'well why not just go with 1444'.
For the longest time I thought they would just go with 1444 again as they have all the research in place for that year, but Johan also made the point of saying in a thread on the EU4 forums talking about this that every EU game so far has had a different start date. Either that was misdirection meant to stir debate (which we can't begrudge him at all) or a genuine hint, we are left with two possibilities in my opinion. Either 1444 again or something much closer to 1419 (maybe 1421 to get a solid 400 years out of the game?).
I think your logic here is immensely flawed. No one has played a proper Napoleonic Wars in EU4, certainly not if they started the game in 1444. They are both a non issue and a detriment. Having it in its own game would be the objectively best solution to this issue.
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That is IF they have a game just for that. Like I said before, I agree with you. But if there is no Napoleonic Wars game, then leaving this out is very bad.
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I feel like 1421 is too close to 1419. And there also needs to be a significant event happening in the start date. And there's not really anything super noteworthy that year, which is why I chose 1431.
This is only my opinion as to how the devs are thinking, not my personal opinion, as I think that around 1419 would be a great start date.
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If the start date is after 1453 but before 1461, Byzaboos can still have a playable Byzantium even if they aren’t a starting tag (Trebizond).
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With an early start date, it would be difficult to draw a good cultural and political map for a lot of the world. For example, 1444 is at the edge of the proto-historic period for most of North America. Go back much further and you're using archeology and guess work. So if the devs want an earlier start date, they need to find a way to deal with that problem.
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They've done it before. There have been start dates on 1399 and 1419. No reason why they wouldn't manage.