What would happen if science buildings were split into the 3 fields?

[HorseBattery]

If we had 3 separate buildings for each science field instead of one then players could more easily focus their empire on a particular field. Maybe the upgrades for each building could require different resource types as well, and/or different jobs.

Would it improve the diversity of empires? Or would it just add too much more micromanagement?

Perhaps instead of multiple buildings we could have something like consumer goods/alloys where we could have planetary designations that focus a reasearch world on a particular field?

 

[DukeLeto42]

Would it improve the diversity of empires? Or would it just add too much more micromanagement?

Micromanagement, for the most part - this is how the game used to be back before the end of Tiles. Lots of clicking and checking to keep your empire reasonably balanced.

I should also note that, because each research line has boosts to things you need, and costs steadily increase as you go down the tech tree, there isn't much gained to focusing one tech line specifically.

Perhaps instead of multiple buildings we could have something like consumer goods/alloys where we could have planetary designations that focus a reasearch world on a particular field?

This, though... this I like. I'd love to have a decision to set a planetary research focus so I can make the most of planets that come with lots of % bonuses to a specific research.

 

[Tamwin5]

Micromanagement, for the most part - this is how the game used to be back before the end of Tiles. Lots of clicking and checking to keep your empire reasonably balanced.

I should also note that, because each research line has boosts to things you need, and costs steadily increase as you go down the tech tree, there isn't much gained to focusing one tech line specifically.


This, though... this I like. I'd love to have a decision to set a planetary research focus so I can make the most of planets that come with lots of % bonuses to a specific research.

It's worth noting that if you have a planet feature giving you +20% engineering research, and then you set a focus giving that planet +20% engineering (probably at 10% cost to other two), it doesn't actually give you any more research than if you used that bonus on any old planet. Modifiers are additive, not multiplicative. In order for that focus to be meaningful, you would have to have one of them change base production.

 

[evilcat]

You are overestimating my love for micro.
But:
I think we can have 3 buildings each dedicated to 1 field, and 1 per planet type, which would give +30% to one field and -10% to other types.
I see the point that we are really lagging in engineering and can do anything to fix that.
Or there could be a more complex buildings which do a several things like
Fusion Reactor - gives technicans and Physics
Lab Meat - food and society
Recycling center - some minerals and engineering.

Or introduce more civics which gives some small amount of science in unexpected places (Master Artificiers is very nice).

As for question if there is a real need for that:
Well i am often lagging in Engineering, since i need Stations, Ships, Hulls, Robots, Minerals, Some rare resouce. And getting one of weapons woud also be nice.
So sometimes having some extra sources of engineering would be nice.

 

[ThatDaniel]

If we had 3 separate buildings for each science field instead of one then players could more easily focus their empire on a particular field. Maybe the upgrades for each building could require different resource types as well, and/or different jobs.

Would it improve the diversity of empires? Or would it just add too much more micromanagement?

Perhaps instead of multiple buildings we could have something like consumer goods/alloys where we could have planetary designations that focus a reasearch world on a particular field?

There actually used to be separate science buildings for the different categories but they were combined after planet tiles were removed (think it was the 2.2 update)

 

[DukeLeto42]

It's worth noting that if you have a planet feature giving you +20% engineering research, and then you set a focus giving that planet +20% engineering (probably at 10% cost to other two), it doesn't actually give you any more research than if you used that bonus on any old planet. Modifiers are additive, not multiplicative. In order for that focus to be meaningful, you would have to have one of them change base production.

I should have been clearer - I was assuming the planetary designation would alter the base research production from pops (something like transforming 4/4/4 to 2/8/2 production), exactly as you point out.

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Rather than buildings, I think it would make more sense to do this as a policy:

Research Focus

• No Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 4 physics, 4 society, 4 engineering
• Physics Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 6 physics, 3 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Physics research alternatives and -1 Society and Engineering research alternatives
  • Physics expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Society Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 6 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Society research alternatives and -1 Physics and Engineering research alternatives
  • Society expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Engineering Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 3 society, 6 engineering
  • +2 Engineering research alternatives and -1 Physics and Society research alternatives
  • Engineering expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely

Possibly unlocked by the Discovery tradition, similar to getting War Doctrines from Supremacy and Trade Policies from Mercantile.

 

[Tamwin5]

Rather than buildings, I think it would make more sense to do this as a policy:

Research Focus

• No Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 4 physics, 4 society, 4 engineering
• Physics Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 6 physics, 3 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Physics research alternatives and -1 Society and Engineering research alternatives
  • Physics expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Society Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 6 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Society research alternatives and -1 Physics and Engineering research alternatives
  • Society expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Engineering Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 3 society, 6 engineering
  • +2 Engineering research alternatives and -1 Physics and Society research alternatives
  • Engineering expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely

Possibly unlocked by the Discovery tradition, similar to getting War Doctrines from Supremacy and Trade Policies from Mercantile.

Hmm, it might also be interesting to give +1 research alternatives to the tree being focused, and -1 to the trees not. Ideally focusing a tree should be slightly worse than going for a balanced approach, since by bee-lining a tree you can get key techs before other people and take advantage of that.

I do like it as part of discovery (replacement for the current +10% finisher? Or lower the finisher to 5%, then add this?), but another option would be to have this be a rework of Technological Ascendency.

 

[HorseBattery]

Hmm, it might also be interesting to give +1 research alternatives to the tree being focused, and -1 to the trees not. Ideally focusing a tree should be slightly worse than going for a balanced approach, since by bee-lining a tree you can get key techs before other people and take advantage of that.

I do like it as part of discovery (replacement for the current +10% finisher? Or lower the finisher to 5%, then add this?), but another option would be to have this be a rework of Technological Ascendency.

I think that if you get the policy for "free" as a policy or planet designation then it makes sense to have it be equivalent or a net loss in research, but if it is part of a "reward" like the discovery tree finisher or an ascension perk then it could have a net gain.

Rather than buildings, I think it would make more sense to do this as a policy:

Research Focus

• No Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 4 physics, 4 society, 4 engineering
• Physics Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 6 physics, 3 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Physics research alternatives and -1 Society and Engineering research alternatives
  • Physics expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Society Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 6 society, 3 engineering
  • +2 Society research alternatives and -1 Physics and Engineering research alternatives
  • Society expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely
• Engineering Focus
  • Researcher / Brain Drone / Calculator base production = 3 physics, 3 society, 6 engineering
  • +2 Engineering research alternatives and -1 Physics and Society research alternatives
  • Engineering expertise traits are more likely, other expertise trait are less likely

Possibly unlocked by the Discovery tradition, similar to getting War Doctrines from Supremacy and Trade Policies from Mercantile.

Personally I really like the idea of having it as something like a policy that is available to all empires from the start, with equal base research to not disincentivise players from using it. The policy also has the benefit of being applied empire wide unlike a planet designation, resulting in less micro and a more distinct science focus.

If this is then combined with other bonuses like your species traits and planet modifiers it could be quite interesting.

 

[Mastikator]

There actually used to be separate science buildings for the different categories but they were combined after planet tiles were removed (think it was the 2.2 update)

Yepp, research lab buildings when upgraded would have to pick one type. Since engineering has way more technologies everyone just upgraded everything into engineering labs.

I'd rather not have a focus though. Just add some physics techs and society techs.

 

[evilcat]

I like the idea of having empire wild policy. Technology is empire wide, so the swap could be made on empire level.
Manually adjusting 20 techworlds could be too much work.