What would be the correct traits for humans irl?

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BlackUmbrellas

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I have found that the largest hindrance to trying to teach someone something has been using too large of words or words and terms they do not understand. People get overwhelmed with nomenclature and don't get the chance to understand the actual subject. Having explained things without using too many terms, I've managed to see even the 'dumbest of rocks' understand relatively complex topics.
Absolutely.

This is one of the reasons I've always remained confident that you could take a human from almost any period in history and, provided you could cross the language barrier, "modernize" them and have the potential for them to grasp the intricacies of modern technology about as well as anyone else.

There's nothing, if you ask me, that would prevent you from teaching a Roman the basic principles and ramifications of quantum mechanics.
 
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alphamikefox

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The game I'm currently playing as humans, I picked no traits at all. A little roleplaying, but I thought it was most appropriate. Because of this choice I also got to start the game with 2 gene points for if/when I want to buff humanity
 
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AndrewT

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Numerous off-topic and insulting posts deleted.

This behaviour stops now or this thread gets closed and infractions handed out.
 

Ikael

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This is a fascinating topic, it would be sad to see it spiralling into ad hominem attacks.

As for the human traits or ethos:

- Religious. This is an incredibly pervasive trait present in every single human culture on Earth. Some scientists even argue that us humans have developed religious instincts due to the very morphology of our brains. While it is true that atheism / agnosticism has been growing recently in the developed world, I do think that this is more due to the fact that the developed world has ended the persecution of unbelievers and thus, atheists can be more open about their beliefs, rather it than a numerical growth. Kinda the same that happened with the LGTB community, so to speak.

- Collectivists / communnal. Us humans are some of the most complex social animals in existance. Our entire civilization revolves around mutually shared burden and the formation of wide, specialized groups. While we do indeed lack of a hive-mind, we are incredibly social when compared to other mammalians and primates, which prefers far more reduced packs. Recent trends towards individualism are more of an anomalous consequence of living under the reign of what is probably the most individualistic civilization that ever existed (the United States) rather than a long-term tendency in our evolution, me thinks.

- Pacifist. Don't listen to what the misantropes says. While human history is indeed plagued with violence and conflict, our wars and high number of victims are more of a consequence of our technical prowess rather than an unusually agressive behaviour. Violence has been declining since a long time in our civilization, and most other primates and mammalians have a far more agressive intra-species violence record than humans. The fact that we feel disgust against violence on an instinctive level really talks volumes about our true nature. We feel far more comfortable cooperating rather than killing each other.

- Adaptative. We have not only been able to adapt to almost every climate imaginable, but on top on that we can eat almost everything that we can crush with our teeth, save from the very energetically un-efficient digestion of pasture, and the extremely specialized digestion of carrion. We condiment our foods with substances that would kill or maim other lesser animals (sugar, pepper) just for the lulz, and we can recover from injuries that would kill other mammals (broken legs, for example). Humans are really hard to kill.

- Resilient. Little known fact: Humans are outsanding at sustaining huge efforts for long periods of time thanks to our past as persecution predators. Caesar's legions were able to outrun and tire down Gallic calvaries. Tribes in Africa hunts down lions by forcing them to sprint and stop until they get tired. Some primitive Siberian clans hunts without using weapons at all, just by tracking prey until it collapses, exhausted. Humans, when healthy and propery trained, never, ever get tired of walking. We are the goddamn terminators of our planet.
 

Mcwynne

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Venerable, I`ve been through hundreds of standardized space years, and I`ve barely aged at all!

Seriously though, I `ve always put humans as the standard and thought about the traits as ways species deviate from that.
 

Gutie

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To be honest if we had globally 22nd century tech and had individually the means to support it humanity could be increasing it's population by about 20% annually if there was a notion to do so globally. The concept of "two kids and a dog" is a very recent phenomenon in human history. On a settled colonized world? Expect the 1.3-2.4 kids per couple we have in "the west" to double or triple. Quick breeders can definitely apply to humans if you are thinking in terms of a space-faring race. If you add to it the human life extending tech.....that would increase the prime of human biology? You can extend the prime window for population growth it'd make per couple to boom like Irish and italians in NY in 1880-1950s, lol. Would even increase the productivity if less of a % of a lifetime is in it's younger or older form..... which hasn't been really been factored into gameplay.

Side Note: Shouldn't the "leader lifetime" bonus tech give a slight boost to population growth rate due to more and longer prime lifespans?

You could theoretically simply make a more spacefaring expansionist Human faction I suppose, but in just thinking of the survivalist instinct colonists would have, the population rate growth on settled worlds should be higher somehow....maybe a new trait for higher growth rate on non-capital worlds?
 

Milten

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Quick breeders can definitely apply to humans if you are thinking in terms of a space-faring race.
What makes you think so? Among animals on Earth we are one of the slowest, without even mentioning long post-birth period when kids are fully dependent on others' care to survive.
 

Mcwynne

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Just out of curiousity, what are people as stardard to compare humans to?

All life on earth? Other animals? Vertibrae? Are you assuming your own culture and comparing it to others?

Because the traits can be pretty much wharever depending on what you compare with.
 

gdj

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nonadaptive: we live on a planet covered mainly by water, yet cannot live on it or in it. In fact, we cannot even drink sea water. we cannot climb high mountain without addition oxygen supplies. even slight variances in gravity cause severe health problems for humans. it is doubtful whether humans can easily find any other planet where they can live on without being totally dependend on yet undeveloped technologies.

agrarian: rather obvious. Imagine human history without the development of agriculture, or the competition for land.

sedentary: somewhat related to nonadaptive and agrarian, humans generally don´t move much between continents. only a fraction of people actually considered moving to a different continent, the entire histroy of american colonisation included. Serious push/pull factors are needed for voluntary human resettlement.

quick learners: civilisation as we know it is barely 12000 years old, and we have reached the early space age already. This is rather baffling.

intelligent: same logic as quick learners.

deviants: any notion of homogenous ethics even on state levels is a fiction.

I guess there are many more traits that fit, but these should suffice for a rather clear picture compared to other species.
 

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It is very difficult to know what our species is like, the same way it's tricky to know what your culture is like, besides from very broad, basic trait. Once you stop saying what we are compared to others, and start trying to say what we are, it gets very tricky.

Humans are tribal pack animals, for example. We are omnivoric hunters. We are tool-users. And so on.

Traits beyond this, like xenophile/xenophobe? Very hard to say.
 

gdj

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Wasn´t the original question which traits humans have? militarist, exenophile etc. are ethoses not traits, and vary on the entire spectrum.
 

Robrecht

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this discussion reminded me strongly of this picture....;)

QORNJJw.jpg

Reading that last bit about pursuit predation, I can only conclude that we're not space orks or xenomorphs...

We are Slender(hu)man.
 

ZomgK3tchup

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Physiologically, in comparison to other animals: Adaptive, Resilient, Slow Breeders, and Weak.

I imagine that most intelligent species would breed slower than non-intelligent ones for the same reason we breed slower than other species: it takes longer for us to reach maturity due to the size of our brains. I'd cross Slow Breeders off the list if that's the case.

It's difficult to say about any of the psychological ones without having a comparison to at least one other intelligent species and, more importantly, what is inherent to the human psyche and what is impressed on us by culture.

When I play as humans, I've done Adaptive, Intelligent, Sedentary, and Slow Breeders.

Absolutely.

This is one of the reasons I've always remained confident that you could take a human from almost any period in history and, provided you could cross the language barrier, "modernize" them and have the potential for them to grasp the intricacies of modern technology about as well as anyone else.

There's nothing, if you ask me, that would prevent you from teaching a Roman the basic principles and ramifications of quantum mechanics.
This is only partially true.

You could teach anyone how to use technology but teaching them ideas is an entirely different ballgame; whether or not they'd accept the ramifications of quantum mechanics, for example, would largely depend on how willing they'd be to accept that almost everything they know about the universe is wrong. This, in itself, depends on both the individual and the society in which they are raised.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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This is only partially true.

You could teach anyone how to use technology but teaching them ideas is an entirely different ballgame; whether or not they'd accept the ramifications of quantum mechanics, for example, would largely depend on how willing they'd be to accept that almost everything they know about the universe is wrong. This, in itself, depends on both the individual and the society in which they are raised.
I'll give you that point. Allow me to rephrase- I don't believe there's anything inherently preventing you teaching a Roman about quantum physics and what it means. Individual personality may or may not come into play, but I find it unlikely that you couldn't find a Roman somewhere who, given an education and access to resources, could not then go on to become a qualified scientist in the field of quantum mechanics.
 

deezee

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This is a fascinating topic, it would be sad to see it spiralling into ad hominem attacks.

As for the human traits or ethos:

- Religious. This is an incredibly pervasive trait present in every single human culture on Earth. Some scientists even argue that us humans have developed religious instincts due to the very morphology of our brains. While it is true that atheism / agnosticism has been growing recently in the developed world, I do think that this is more due to the fact that the developed world has ended the persecution of unbelievers and thus, atheists can be more open about their beliefs, rather it than a numerical growth. Kinda the same that happened with the LGTB community, so to speak.

- Collectivists / communnal. Us humans are some of the most complex social animals in existance. Our entire civilization revolves around mutually shared burden and the formation of wide, specialized groups. While we do indeed lack of a hive-mind, we are incredibly social when compared to other mammalians and primates, which prefers far more reduced packs. Recent trends towards individualism are more of an anomalous consequence of living under the reign of what is probably the most individualistic civilization that ever existed (the United States) rather than a long-term tendency in our evolution, me thinks.

- Pacifist. Don't listen to what the misantropes says. While human history is indeed plagued with violence and conflict, our wars and high number of victims are more of a consequence of our technical prowess rather than an unusually agressive behaviour. Violence has been declining since a long time in our civilization, and most other primates and mammalians have a far more agressive intra-species violence record than humans. The fact that we feel disgust against violence on an instinctive level really talks volumes about our true nature. We feel far more comfortable cooperating rather than killing each other.

- Adaptative. We have not only been able to adapt to almost every climate imaginable, but on top on that we can eat almost everything that we can crush with our teeth, save from the very energetically un-efficient digestion of pasture, and the extremely specialized digestion of carrion. We condiment our foods with substances that would kill or maim other lesser animals (sugar, pepper) just for the lulz, and we can recover from injuries that would kill other mammals (broken legs, for example). Humans are really hard to kill.

- Resilient. Little known fact: Humans are outsanding at sustaining huge efforts for long periods of time thanks to our past as persecution predators. Caesar's legions were able to outrun and tire down Gallic calvaries. Tribes in Africa hunts down lions by forcing them to sprint and stop until they get tired. Some primitive Siberian clans hunts without using weapons at all, just by tracking prey until it collapses, exhausted. Humans, when healthy and propery trained, never, ever get tired of walking. We are the goddamn terminators of our planet.


In general, I don't think it is realistic to assign traits to humans until we can see how humans compare to other intelligent species. For example, while it is definitely true that humans have a more complex society than any other animal, it is entirely possible that all intelligent animals have complex societies - if dealing with societal complexity is what drives the evolution of intelligence (which is a common theory, although it cannot be proven yet). A similar point is made about adaptive - humans adapt to difficult circumstances using our intelligence and resourcefulness. It is not hard to imagine other intelligent animals would be able to adapt to similar circumstances.

The trait system is meant to differentiate between intelligent races. While we can compare humans to unintelligent species, that means little - it is hard to see what is unique about humans relative to other intelligent species, and what is simply a consequence of being an intelligent species. Of all of these traits, only "resilient" seems unrelated to human intelligence and thus likely to be a unique trait - but these things are always quite unpredictable.
 

Otto of england

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This is a fascinating topic, it would be sad to see it spiralling into ad hominem attacks.

As for the human traits or ethos:

- Religious. This is an incredibly pervasive trait present in every single human culture on Earth. Some scientists even argue that us humans have developed religious instincts due to the very morphology of our brains. While it is true that atheism / agnosticism has been growing recently in the developed world, I do think that this is more due to the fact that the developed world has ended the persecution of unbelievers and thus, atheists can be more open about their beliefs, rather it than a numerical growth. Kinda the same that happened with the LGTB community, so to speak.

- Collectivists / communnal. Us humans are some of the most complex social animals in existance. Our entire civilization revolves around mutually shared burden and the formation of wide, specialized groups. While we do indeed lack of a hive-mind, we are incredibly social when compared to other mammalians and primates, which prefers far more reduced packs. Recent trends towards individualism are more of an anomalous consequence of living under the reign of what is probably the most individualistic civilization that ever existed (the United States) rather than a long-term tendency in our evolution, me thinks.

- Pacifist. Don't listen to what the misantropes says. While human history is indeed plagued with violence and conflict, our wars and high number of victims are more of a consequence of our technical prowess rather than an unusually agressive behaviour. Violence has been declining since a long time in our civilization, and most other primates and mammalians have a far more agressive intra-species violence record than humans. The fact that we feel disgust against violence on an instinctive level really talks volumes about our true nature. We feel far more comfortable cooperating rather than killing each other.

- Adaptative. We have not only been able to adapt to almost every climate imaginable, but on top on that we can eat almost everything that we can crush with our teeth, save from the very energetically un-efficient digestion of pasture, and the extremely specialized digestion of carrion. We condiment our foods with substances that would kill or maim other lesser animals (sugar, pepper) just for the lulz, and we can recover from injuries that would kill other mammals (broken legs, for example). Humans are really hard to kill.

- Resilient. Little known fact: Humans are outsanding at sustaining huge efforts for long periods of time thanks to our past as persecution predators. Caesar's legions were able to outrun and tire down Gallic calvaries. Tribes in Africa hunts down lions by forcing them to sprint and stop until they get tired. Some primitive Siberian clans hunts without using weapons at all, just by tracking prey until it collapses, exhausted. Humans, when healthy and propery trained, never, ever get tired of walking. We are the goddamn terminators of our planet.

In regards to your point on pacifism, our disgust towards violence is seems to be an entirely a social concept considering the following:

1. Humans have changed negligible since civilization started.

2. All civilizations have a cycle of war - rebuilding - War, with the inner rebuilding period dependant on how devastating the war was to those involved.

F.e.1 the classical period saw neigh constant Warfare as an individual battle was largely inconsequential on the economic while being of the civilization.

F.e.2 pre-first crusade western Europe was so violent and constantly at war clergymen were not safe walking on the road.

F.e.3 Since 1648 we have been in a cycle of major war, economic boom, major war. Thirties Years War -> 60 year lull -> War of Spanish Succession -> 50 year lull -> 7 years war -> 40 year lull -> French revolutionary wars/Napoleon ice wars -> 50 year lull -> 1860/70s not a single war but several huge concurrent wars Taiping Rebellion/American Civil War/Austro-Prussian war/Franco-Prussian war/Austro-Italian war -> 40 year lull -> first Balkan war to ww1 (basically same conflict) -> 20 year lull -> ww2 -> 50 years of nuclear arms race -> lull 30+x years

Note by this metric I predict ww3 or a smaller scale but still major war to be happen between 2037-2057.

Basically considering this 350 year cycle I'm unconvinced you can call as Pacifistic in anyway.

3. PTSD and other combat related mental illnesses seem to be entirely dependant on the type of warfare you fight and society your in. In historical accounts people showing symptoms of PTSD are notable and authors make a big deal of them, however, nowadays it almost seems the opposite with people who are not affected being notable.

That does makes perfect sense though, because people in western societies are taught that killing is fundamentally evil and bad and should never happen. Then they join the army, are taught to kill before thinking and expected to be just fine when they come back from a war zone. However, in say the Medieval Era, Fighting was what a noble did, and you were a hero and awesome sauce if you were good at it. Consequently killing just came with the position and you didn't think much of it because you were told your whole life that this is normal and you should desire to be awesome sauce and heroic. Now that's not to say PTSD or other illness were impossible back then, just it seems unlikely they were so endemic to fighting as they are today, and if they were you would expect to here about broken/craven/unmanly (not to call out those who suffering from this, but I'm just spit balling wording you'd expect to find).
 
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