What will be a good "starter nation" in this game?
- Thread starter Lord Pounce
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Will this game actually have a legitimate tutorial? Paradox is somewhat infamous for their awful (and sometimes not working) tutorials...
I remember when they tried to submit the game to Alpha, it was denied because they had the tutorial half-baked...
Italy was always where I would point people in HOI3 and most likely the same here.
1. Early War to get some experience with mechanics.
2. Naval, Land, and Air can be dabbled in her ToO
3. Usually get to decide when you want to enter the war (HOI3 experience not sure if the same applies here especially with World Tension, if Germany/Japan goes nutz maybe you have to be a bit more on edge)
4. On the border with Germany so can lend lease equipment without having to worry about convoys being sunk (though I don't think you can buy production licenses in HOI4 it was also a plausible solution in HOI3 to just build German licensed tanks if you had done a decent job with building some IC and practicals)
Lot's of other reasons I might be missing but in general I think Italy gives a taste of a lot of different flavors of the game without many of the worries that the other Major's have at the time.
1. Early War to get some experience with mechanics.
2. Naval, Land, and Air can be dabbled in her ToO
3. Usually get to decide when you want to enter the war (HOI3 experience not sure if the same applies here especially with World Tension, if Germany/Japan goes nutz maybe you have to be a bit more on edge)
4. On the border with Germany so can lend lease equipment without having to worry about convoys being sunk (though I don't think you can buy production licenses in HOI4 it was also a plausible solution in HOI3 to just build German licensed tanks if you had done a decent job with building some IC and practicals)
Lot's of other reasons I might be missing but in general I think Italy gives a taste of a lot of different flavors of the game without many of the worries that the other Major's have at the time.
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Well I only parroted what the streamers said on WWW.
I cannot comment on the legitimacy of the tutorial since they have not shown anything about it and I haven't seen it myself.
Would "build civillian factories with all your IC" count as stategic insight? >.< I really wanna move out of the Facist options quickly.
Possibly would, probably not. If you devote all your resources to growth you may not be strong enough to withstand the likely Axis offensive. If spamming Civvie factories is a no-brainer, the balancing department still has a lot of work to do.
Same as Italian military achievements: they can only improve...
(my introduction to HOI3 took two days of watching let's plays, reading wikis, and trial&error ) I doubt, however, that any grand strategy game of a scale like HoI will ever have a "good" tutorial in a sense that people would be satisfied. The nature of this sub-genre of strategy means it
1) is one if not the most complex genre in the market
2) has the tendency to rather increase than decrease complexity over time (Paradox did well with EU4 and seems to apply lessons learned to HOI4, but have a look at EU4 DLCs or open any thread on this forum to find community request for highly niche/obscure features)
3) attracts a highly dedicated, patient, and forgiving target audience in existence.
TL;DR: Grand strategy tutorials are doomed to fall short but it doesn't matter in the end
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My plan is to do tutorial, then play sweden just to learn the basics without being attacked (and probably using console), then my first actual game as Germany (since I dont have to worry about a massive overseas empire).
Well, the USSR starts with a large army, right? >.< Fortify the Don and the Volga, spam Civillian factories, preferably beyond the Urals, make sure not to overcommit defence forces to low-priority targets like Finland.
...or ask Da9L really nicely to make a USSR for dummies guide...hmm...
Canada. Was my first one in HoI3 and it really is great for absolute newbies to HoI, if only because you get to dictate exactly when you get involved in the war.
Italy is great too, and definitely gives you a chance to dive right into the game, but it does start at war in Ethiopia, then puts you up against France on your western land border, and challenges you to beat the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean in 1940. Not that those tasks are impossible (or all that hard), but the reality is you do have to fight while you're also trying to figure out production, manpower, and all the other domestic aspects of the game. With Canada you can literally sit there, build up an army and some transports, and just jump on the back of wherever the Allies happen to fight, whenever you feel comfortable. Also, you'll never have to worry about being invaded so long as you stick with the USA/Allies, unlike Italy which can face an invasion on home soil. My one Italy game I almost surrendered because I threw everything into the Eastern Front (Germany's AI was terrible in this game), only to have the British/USA land in Sicily and get past Rome before I put a stop to them.
Also, as a fellow Canadian, do it for your country.
Italy is great too, and definitely gives you a chance to dive right into the game, but it does start at war in Ethiopia, then puts you up against France on your western land border, and challenges you to beat the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean in 1940. Not that those tasks are impossible (or all that hard), but the reality is you do have to fight while you're also trying to figure out production, manpower, and all the other domestic aspects of the game. With Canada you can literally sit there, build up an army and some transports, and just jump on the back of wherever the Allies happen to fight, whenever you feel comfortable. Also, you'll never have to worry about being invaded so long as you stick with the USA/Allies, unlike Italy which can face an invasion on home soil. My one Italy game I almost surrendered because I threw everything into the Eastern Front (Germany's AI was terrible in this game), only to have the British/USA land in Sicily and get past Rome before I put a stop to them.
Also, as a fellow Canadian, do it for your country.
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They also have a huge penalty to their army from either Trotsky or purging.
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Trotsky gives penalty for IC if I remember correctly and purging is the one that at the beginning gives maluses for military.
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IMO Germany is the best country to start with. You will get crushed the first couple times you play but you get to do all the fun stuff. I highly recommend against Japan, then you get navy thrown into the mix. You can totally skip navy as germany the first couple times, and then work it in later.
The goal of this game is to bring in more of a mass market, which includes many players whose knowledge of WW2 is from the media and what they retain from school, which judging from surveys may be relatively little. Knowing the chronology is a spoiler anyway - something readily manageable but active enough to be interesting is the goal.
True, there is a progression, but there are also opportunities to make lots of serious mistakes in direction, emphasis, and timing. Plus managing war on multiple fronts is more complicated, thought hte battle planner seems like a dream come true.
And you should pay necessary attention to all areas, bearing in mind trade-offs. This is a compelling point for some, but others may want to stick with land-based warfare for their first game.
Bigger can be better.
And enemies, and in fact a range of multi-faceted alternative grand strategies and operational strategies that permits a wealth of unforced errors. Lesser powers can offfer more clarity in grand strategy and operational alternatives.
Don' know enough about whether there is railroading of events that would preclude a power or a Balkan minor starting up something in their own interest that polarizes the continent into warring blocs.
Indeed, "Blitzkrieg" was sexy from the moment it was invented. As WWWednesday shows, you can also conquer with good old boring infantry divisions.
Germany is likely to make mistakes and resilience as well as the advantage of interior lines with excellent transport infrastructure helps mitigate them.
The UK, however, is not a beginner's choice, as its position is extensive and understaffed with troops; one might call it Imperial overextension. It has many opportunities to make serious mistakes and a rose position to respond quickly to recover.
Agreed, though restoring Uruguay to a revived Empire of Brazil and conquering South America should be an experience, particularly in strategic forethought and logistics.I am very much against learning the game playing as an insignificant nation because you'll teach yourself tactics that won't work against serious enemies, in order to learn the game you have to fight enemies who are actually dangerous, you'll learn a lot more from winning against UK and the Soviet Union as Germany, than you will beating Uruguay as Paraguay
Of the great powers, I think Italy is a good choice for the reasons stated because the mechanics in HOI4 appear to make it much easier to manage logistics, troop movements, invasions, and air and naval assets and it can operate under a coherent plan for its Med-centric theatre of operatoins.
Minors such as Romania or Hungary don't have a need for naval forces and will get to do some heavy combat in their own interest, fighting with each other over Transylvania if not elsewhere. China would be an infantry war on a large scale. Spain or Australia have naval as well as land forces, and can make their mark on the war - Australia in Africa as well as Asia. And there is always Sweden - whose secret aspirations for pan-Scandinavian empire and nuclear domination are revealed to the world for the first time in this game.
China is the first one I got going with. You start with largest power base of any minor and can rival Japan if you survive.move all your men to the north and stay behind the river and Japan can't touch you. Next try to peace out Japan. Use this time to unite all of China (and maybe join the comenturn). Finally crush Japan on the mainland and you should dwarf their power in the east. From there you can even achieve world conquest if you work hard enough.
Edit- not sure why this posted 3 times.
Edit- not sure why this posted 3 times.
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Italy because of reasons mentioned earlier and above all the fact that it IS the tutorial nation in HoI4.
USA and Canada feel like really bad options for starter/learner nations - while their home territories are safe and thus it's hard to lose, they enter the combat rather late in game so you get very little actual learning - you have to spend many hours until the rubber meets the road (for you) and you get the first feedback on which of your strategical and industry choices were good or bad.
You'd learn far more by getting annexed within 30 minutes as Poland in 1939 than spending 1936-1941 as USA.
You'd learn far more by getting annexed within 30 minutes as Poland in 1939 than spending 1936-1941 as USA.
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You want a country with lots of production capabilities to give you a wide range of options, but without a starting posistion that is difficult to manage (China) and without the need to fight on multiple different fronts (Britain).
Someone said Italy earlier, and that is a good choice. The Spanish Republic is another good one since the Spanish Civil War makes for a great way to learn the mechanics as both sides are evenly matched and small, meaning you don't have that many units to manage.
Turkey is also an excelent choice, because they have a decent industrial/resource base, but no obvious enemies, and lots of freedom to do what you please (and with one really big exception alot of weak neighbors)
Someone said Italy earlier, and that is a good choice. The Spanish Republic is another good one since the Spanish Civil War makes for a great way to learn the mechanics as both sides are evenly matched and small, meaning you don't have that many units to manage.
Turkey is also an excelent choice, because they have a decent industrial/resource base, but no obvious enemies, and lots of freedom to do what you please (and with one really big exception alot of weak neighbors)
Germany does indeed face a good learning curve, from easy (Poland) to more challenging (France) to hard (USSR and holding off the Allies in the west). That is, if things go down as they did historically, which is no certainty in HOI4 .
They also have a lot of units and other stuff to keep track of, however. I would recommend a smaller country to people who have never played HOI before. Canada has been suggested as it's safe and sound across the Pacific, as has Brazil. Italy sounds like a pretty cool start, too. You can stay out of WWII altogher should you want to and still beat up on smaller countries like Greece.
.They also have a lot of units and other stuff to keep track of, however. I would recommend a smaller country to people who have never played HOI before. Canada has been suggested as it's safe and sound across the Pacific, as has Brazil. Italy sounds like a pretty cool start, too. You can stay out of WWII altogher should you want to and still beat up on smaller countries like Greece.