What weapon combinations are good now?

[Piotrzeci]

The usual way I design my ships is a combination of Lasers + Kinetics (or Plasma + Null Void) or Rockets + Kinetics.

• Are there any good components I ignore? I barely ever research Autocannons.
• Is there a better alternative to Kinetic with Missiles? Disruptors?
• Are there any interesting weapons you can get from Amoeba/Clouds/Drones/Tiyanki?
• Are Torpedoes better than Missiles? I know that swarmer and whirlwind have the advantage of hull points, but what about the other types.

I know that the best choices are the ones you get from End-game crisis, but I am asking for the base weaponry.

 

[Wolfgang I]

Cloud lighting and disruptors are good against FEs/AEs and the Contingency and even the Unbidden.

 

[Piotrzeci]

Oh and, what about just 100% disruptors? They bypass shields and armor so there really isn't much need for any other weapon type to go along them.

 

[Mikhail_Mengsk]

Oh and, what about just 100% disruptors? They bypass shields and armor so there really isn't much need for any other weapon type to go along them.

Short range, though, and only M slots IIRC.


The best meta is the one that counters your current enemy.

 

[Promethian]

If you want to do full disruptors you need to research a void cloud corpse because it is the only source of an L slot for distruptor type weapons. Its effective, especially against the fallen empires and 2 out of 3 end game crisis.

Missiles and anything else countered by PD are complete garbage right now. This is because PD has been super buffed. Its an effective weapon against ships in its own right. So setting PD isn't an automatic hard disadvantage if your opponent doesn't have missiles. This is also why I am not going to answer your question of which type of useless is better than the other useless.

In the end. If you don't know what you are up against go with an even balance of kinetic and energy. If you have intel then swap out to counter.

 

[Wolfgang I]

If you want to do full disruptors you need to research a void cloud corpse because it is the only source of an L slot for distruptor type weapons. Its effective, especially against the fallen empires and 2 out of 3 end game crisis.

Missiles and anything else countered by PD are complete garbage right now. This is because PD has been super buffed. Its an effective weapon against ships in its own right. So setting PD isn't an automatic hard disadvantage if your opponent doesn't have missiles. This is also why I am not going to answer your question of which type of useless is better than the other useless.

In the end. If you don't know what you are up against go with an even balance of kinetic and energy. If you have intel then swap out to counter.

The last time I looked even one hangar section broke PD targeting though. I dunno if that is still the case though as I only used torpedo corvettes against FE starbases so far in this version and that still seems to work well.

 

[Grand Stone]

Shields, armor and damage scales with technology. While basic hull points don't scale with science.
Doesn't this stronly favor the weapons which bypasses armor and shields?
Note however, you should go all or nothing.

 

[Chthon]

The last time I looked even one hangar section broke PD targeting though. I dunno if that is still the case though as I only used torpedo corvettes against FE starbases so far in this version and that still seems to work well.

Or the hurricane missiles option, they get maybe one out of the set of missiles before the rest hit.

 

[Althizor]

Each ship class has two hull upgrade techs in engineering, so it isn't static. Also crystal infused/forged plating can add to hull. Long term, sure, there aren't repeatable techs for hull, so as time goes on disruptor type weapons can't be further defended against (this is why they are good against the fallen empires, since they are deep into repeatable techs and don't use crystal plating).

Earlier in the game, disruptors are pretty good all rounders provided your opponent isn't covered in crystal plating, but will still not perform as well as other weapons if tailored to your opponent. I typically mix lasers/guns until battlecruisers which are arc emitter/cloud lightning. If I don't have cloud lightning then giga cannon/neutron bombs.

If you get null beam early it is amazing. Put it on one slot, then build the rest as though shields don't exist.

 

[Flame13223]

The usual way I design my ships is a combination of Lasers + Kinetics (or Plasma + Null Void) or Rockets + Kinetics.

• Are there any good components I ignore? I barely ever research Autocannons.
• Is there a better alternative to Kinetic with Missiles? Disruptors?
• Are there any interesting weapons you can get from Amoeba/Clouds/Drones/Tiyanki?
• Are Torpedoes better than Missiles? I know that swarmer and whirlwind have the advantage of hull points, but what about the other types.

I know that the best choices are the ones you get from End-game crisis, but I am asking for the base weaponry.

If you don't care about losses and just want to win battles that you shouldn't really have any business to win, build 50% corvettes with only autocannons and 50% corvettes with only plasma weaponry...

Then again disruptor/cloudlightning/arc emitter is better against Fallen Empires right now (altough bear in mind that Starbases will wreck the hell out of you if you only build these weapons so you gotta go in with overwhelming fleets against Starbasses)

Missiles and torpedos are just bad right now bc the AI builds WAY too much point defense.

Kinetic batteries and Neutron launchers are always good, they just work against pretty much everything and everyone.

 

[Chthon]

If you don't care about losses and just want to win battles that you shouldn't really have any business to win, build 50% corvettes with only autocannons and 50% corvettes with only plasma weaponry...

Then again disruptor/cloudlightning/arc emitter is better against Fallen Empires right now (altough bear in mind that Starbases will wreck the hell out of you if you only build these weapons so you gotta go in with overwhelming fleets against Starbasses)

Missiles and torpedos are just bad right now bc the AI builds WAY too much point defense.

Kinetic batteries and Neutron launchers are always good, they just work against pretty much everything and everyone.

The AI builds way too much PD, I agree, and it's to their own detriment. That and their PD still gets overwhelmed by my fleets. They just build so much PD that they don't really have the weapons to deal with my fleet.

I usually play for a tech advantage, so I have plenty of spare weaponry hanging around. I also don't fly with only one style of ship, I prefer to have multiple different models of each size class in my fleet. This is what works for me right now:

Corvette Model A: This is the bulk of my early fleet, a missile boat with a mass driver.
Corvette Model B: This one I pull out if the enemy starts to build up their missiles, it's a picket frigate with lasers and mass driver style PD. It will at most make up 25% of my fleet.
Corvette Model C: By mid game this is about 50% of my corvette fleet, a missile boat with hurricane style missiles and autocannons. At close range autocannons > mass drivers.
Corvette Model D: This is a specialized ship for when I see a race with weak shields or certain space monsters, a Laser build with a single mass driver/autocannon.

By the time Destroyers are common, the AI is usually already overreacting to my massive missile mayhem, here's my usual setups:
Destroyer Model A: Picket destroyer rear with gunship bow(the one with M S S). Focuses on mass driver style weapons to deal with shields quickly, the armor is usually gone from the missiles before they have issues.
Destroyer Model B: Gunship bow(M M) with gunship stern (M S S). Focuses on lasers with a single mass driver/autocannon to deal with space monsters and ships with weak shields.

Cruisers let me up my game on missiles. About this time I get access to hurricane missiles, so corvettes overwhelm the point defense while cruisers provide consistent dps.
Cruiser Model A: Missile bow, Hanger mid, gunship rear(M S). Uses normal missiles for regular targets. Sits at long range, and the weapons on the back are there if the battle comes close.
Cruiser Model B: Same sections as above. Uses torpedos for high hp large targets, or launchers if I need them. Again, the AI's PD is overwhelmed and it can't focus on the most important missiles at this point.

Battleships depend on what sections it lets me build. Sometimes I get access to the missile bows, sometimes the hanger bows. I'm not sure what determines what sections I can use.
Battleship Model A: Missile/hangar bow, carrier mid, gunship stern. Same idea as the cruisers but bigger and tankier.
Battleship Model B: Capital bow (L weapons one), carrier mid, gunship stern. This I use to hunt bigger fish if I can't get a launcher on a battleship.

Having multiple models is only half of my defense, and that alone works wonders against the AI. What I also do against players is more tricky. All of my corvette models for example will have very similar looking names, such that if you scan the list of corvettes and only pick one to look at, you will only see a small portion of my fleet composition. Even better, I will sometimes throw in red herrings with names, which are the same exact model as the majority of my fleet, but with a different name, and let those two be seen together a lot. Players who don't pay very close attention beware. It also makes it hard for them to get a good grasp for my exact fleet composition when they have to check every single one and count them.

 

[roman566]

Battleships with Proton/Neutron launchers. Possibly with some XL weapon. I like Arc Throwers, but that's just personal preference.

 

[The Boz]

The targeting system HEAVILY encourages monofleets (fleets of the same type and loadout of ship). This is further exacerbated by the stupid "ignore X" weapons, which encourage mono-weapon builds.
Never ever combine weapons with penetration and weapons without it, you will lose DPS and gain nothing.
Plasma, rail and laser weapons can be combined, but don't go for a 33-33-33 or 50-50 split. Tailor to your enemy. Long range L rail and plasma go along great, because the rail will, in theory, take out the shields before the plasma gets into range. When in doubt, monobuild rail.
Avoid missiles and torpedoes. Swarm missiles, the exception, should only be used if you mono-build, and use LOTS of them. Same goes for hangars; BB-only fleet with as many hangars as it can carry will wreck face and ignore shields, armor is a stop-gap, and PD will likely be overwhelmed.
Note that proton/neutron launchers are pretty good if your enemy has large ships. Most AI empires don't use many large ships.
Never ever use the energy siphon. It is laughably bad. Almost the same goes for cutting laser, they will never be your best option.
If you get them, a single null beam combined with laser or plasma will work. Low range is a downside.
If you use cloud lightning, use only cloud lightning, and only early, to wreck early game corvette-based fleets.
Monogun matter disintegrators are surprisingly effective, it is really difficult to outweigh their hull and armor performance with shields.

 

[Chthon]

The targeting system HEAVILY encourages monofleets (fleets of the same type and loadout of ship). This is further exacerbated by the stupid "ignore X" weapons, which encourage mono-weapon builds.
Never ever combine weapons with penetration and weapons without it, you will lose DPS and gain nothing.
Plasma, rail and laser weapons can be combined, but don't go for a 33-33-33 or 50-50 split. Tailor to your enemy. Long range L rail and plasma go along great, because the rail will, in theory, take out the shields before the plasma gets into range. When in doubt, monobuild rail.
Avoid missiles and torpedoes. Swarm missiles, the exception, should only be used if you mono-build, and use LOTS of them. Same goes for hangars; BB-only fleet with as many hangars as it can carry will wreck face and ignore shields, armor is a stop-gap, and PD will likely be overwhelmed.
Note that proton/neutron launchers are pretty good if your enemy has large ships. Most AI empires don't use many large ships.
Never ever use the energy siphon. It is laughably bad. Almost the same goes for cutting laser, they will never be your best option.
If you get them, a single null beam combined with laser or plasma will work. Low range is a downside.
If you use cloud lightning, use only cloud lightning, and only early, to wreck early game corvette-based fleets.
Monogun matter disintegrators are surprisingly effective, it is really difficult to outweigh their hull and armor performance with shields.

As I said, and I've got it working well, missiles and torpedos work well if you can overwhelm the enemy's PD with something else like hurricane missiles. You don't need to even go all swarm to do that.

As for things like disruptors, I feel that they are weapons of attrition you throw at someone who has a huge tech advantage over you, like FEs. If you use them, expect to take casualties. If you use missiles, you force the enemy to either ignore them to their detriment, or counter them, and risk being overwhelmed meaning they don't have the DPS to really hurt you much.

My fleets take out fleets 15% to 25% larger with only a small number of casualties. In fact, one of my fleets almost destroyed 2 enemy fleets that were similar sized in a bad battle I picked. I still destroyed more of their ships than they did of mine, and I remaxed faster.

 

[LayZboy]

The null void beam I found is an interesting weapon, especially in the repeatable-end game since you can offload all you damage boosts to the limited physx tree letting you focus on armour or mineral income in the polluted engineering tree. I don't know if it's actually better than the other choices though. Normally I combine it with the plasma cannons, so the shields are out of the way for those.

It's not too difficult to get if you put a particles scientist in the physx slot.

 

[Flame13223]

usually play for a tech advantage, so I have plenty of spare weaponry hanging around. I also don't fly with only one style of ship, I prefer to have multiple different models of each size class in my fleet. This is what works for me right now:

Okay so right from the getgo what I notice, in my opinion, and this is just my opinion so feel free to disagree and I only mean these things if you wanna min-max and optimize and not roleplay, but what I notice are the following:
- You mix too much stuff together and use underperforming components and fleet types.

- Having 4 types of corvettes is just redundants. Corvettes are only good for two roles. Sustained damage through autocannons and plasma cannons and burst damage through torpedos. Having PD corvettes is just bad because Destroyers are much much MUCH better at PD than corvettes are at the moment.

- Using Whirlwind missiles is just bad because whirlwind missiles are incredibly underpowered. They are literally useless. You are much better off going full torpedo however due to the current meta, vs AI building ANY sort of missiles is just not a good idea. They have too much PD.

- Using Destroyers for anything that isn't PD is kind of a waste unless, and this is a very rare and special circumstance, if you happen to research or gain an L sized weapon (kinetic battery or neutron torpedo) before you have Battleships then using L size destroyers that just have one big cannon essentially can be devastating. therwise there's no use for an M size Destroyer. Auto-Cannon+PlasmaCannon crovettes are just better at sustained damage than destroyers could ever be.

- Cruisers are STILL underpowered. You are better off just waiting for battleships or swapping them out for battleships as soon as you research them. While missile-cruisers could be effective, the point above applies - AI HAS TOO MUCH PD - so cruisers are only a transition ship type.

- Hangars are useless. Especially on cruisers because they can only have one slot. The strike craft AI is a buggy mess and they often don't fire at all, go out in a weird angle/direction, especially if you mass them they absolutely are horrendous and not cost-effective at all. They are literally broken right now. Test them if you wish, I did my own tests, I found out that 30% of strike craft (this is an estimate, the number varies from battle to battle) generally don't even attack.

- When multiple ships perform the same role, you need to choose the ship that performs that role the best. If you want sustained damage, then your best options are corvettes usually. If you want burst damage your best option is XL battleships, that just have nothing but X and L slots full of Neutron torpedos and Kinetic batteries, the ratio of these depends on the enemy type you face. A notable exception to this rule are torpedo corvettes. They perform the same role as battleships in that they do burst damage however, they perform it differently enough in that they are much much more agile, they can be sent from one end of a wide empire to the other much quicker is what I mean.

- Mixing corvettes, destroyers, cruisers and battlesips slows down your fleet. Ideally you want 2 types of fleets a full corvette emergency response team and a dedicated highly efficient fleet that has as few losses as possible. These would be either 100% battleships or X% battleships with Y% point defense destroyers depending on the enemy fleet's composition, if they have more missiles use more point defense destroyers, if they have less missiles use more battleships.
The full corvette fleet is either for defending attacks from unexpected routes or to attack deep into enemy territory from unexpected routes, as due to their high speed they can outmaneuver the enemy. The full battleships (or battleship mixed with point defense) fleet is meant to be the frontal attack fleet. You send them in and they will be incredibly cost-effective as long as you stop to repair from time to time.


So personally if I'd only use the following types of ships under normal circumstances.

BASIC SHIP TYPES

Corvette A - Full autocannon afterburner corvette
Corvette P - Full plasma cannon afterburner corvette
Mix these two 50-50%

Destroyer - Full PDD with lots of shields.
Battleship - Full X and L weapons. Armor,shields and kinetic/energy weapons balanced towards the enemy fleet composition.
Mix these two in a ratio that matches enemy missiles.

SITUATIONAL SHIP TYPES

Battleship Lightning - Full Arc Emitter and Cloud Lightning - Mostly used for beating Fallen Empires. As FE's have a very low number of very highly upgraded ships that have incredibly high amounts of shields and armor, but relatively small amounts of ship HP, using lightning weapons can devastate them.

Corvette T - Full devastator torpedo corvette swarm - Mostly to be used against singular large targets - For example, leviathans, falllen empire starbases, titans and perhaps even Grey Tempest (requires more data, take this one with a grain of salt) - Their long range and high burst damage means you can one-shot a lot of big things if you get enough of the corvettes. A 100 corvette swarm deals an average of 36k damage in a single volley. Due to the long range of the torpedos you can easily fire off 2 volleys before the enemy target has a chance of retaliating with any meaningful amounts of damage. For example a standard citadel has 100k armor and hp combined. So 3 volleys are enough to down an entire citadel and its not really relevant how many defense platforms it has, as if the citadel dies the defense platforms stop firing, and generally in my experience with devastator torpedos the citadel always dies before all the defense platforms do, a couple DP's will go down but usually there's some remaining at the end of the fight (and its a quick fight)

Destroyer C - The cannons as I call them, a destroyer with an L slot weapon and whatever filler you happen to have in the other slots - You use them pretty much the same as you'd use devastator torpedo corvette swarms. Mass them into a big group and let them fire a big volley at an enemy and watch that enemy die. You should only really use this when you don't yet have battleships as battleships are more efficient overall.

 

[TheDungen]

I dunno I usually run with plasma and kinetic, the kinetics takes the shields down while closing (pretty much all kinetics have longer range than plasma, but I especial like the big and mega ones) and the plasma melts the hulls and armour like butter in sunshine.

But mainly I do it because kinetics and mega cannons look way cooler than energy weapons and missiles kind of suck if the enemy has any point defences and the AI always has some point defences. To bad there's no kinetic titan weapon.

 

[Piotrzeci]

From what I've seen in the earliest game a fleet of Kinetic+Missile absolutely tears apart enemy ships, even though the starting design has flak on it. It's just so effective, that it makes me think, that all the PD doesn't really counter a rocket on every ship.

 

[KingAlamar]

In SP I just use Giga Cannons + Neutron Launchers. Not optimal but it's good-enough against AI ships and weak crisis fleets. Smaller ships use a mix of kinetics & plasma. I don't see much missiles & strike craft so not a lot of need for PD.

 

[Wolfgang I]

In the end. If you don't know what you are up against go with an even balance of kinetic and energy. If you have intel then swap out to counter.

Upgrading takes forever though unless you use an exploit or split your fleets.