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That's dependent on the Storyteller; each scene advances time, and the rising of the sun can be used to up the tension in a game.

A tabletop forced day/night cycle equivalent would be the Storyteller sitting there with a stopwatch, telling the group that it's gone from dawn to dusk, then back again, exactly every 30 minutes regardless of what the group's actually performed in that time-span.
 

jju_57

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Its not fulltime 1st person ... just most of the time, and so far just combat was confrimed that way ... so there is still a chance, for non-combat situations ... like mentioned cinematics, or maybe dialogue ... to see your character.
So you get 1-3 second snapshots and that is immersion? RDR2 claimed that you could get fat from overeating yet in reality it never showed. All of it is fake immersion and really offers nothing.

Well ... in Bloodlines you could seduce Romero only with Malc female character ...
Also you could choose origin (Toreador clan if im not wrong), that give you more blood when eating other gender ...
So there is some punish/reward.
Those were histories and all had a buff/nerf of some sort. At the end of the day they really menat nothing in the game. And yes as female you could give yourself to Romero but it had zero impact on the game. Besides it kind of broke lore in that vampires don't have sex. The first game in dialogue with Jeannette said that vampire sex was different and not like normal sex.

Seems quite extreme.
What game does that? And why? o_O
That's my point. Those games from long ago when you could have your female character with a bust size of 38DDD or something was just as stupid. Games where you face is shown like Witcher 3 make sense to have your facial appearance change. Games where you face only appear in character stat screens doesn't do anything.

Was the first game bad because you couldn't design your face or body type?

My point in this is the addition of a "Huge emphasis on character creation" is a big fat nothing burger. It's a so what. It will have no impact on the game and without 3rd person there is no immersion.
 

Thure

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That's my point. Those games from long ago when you could have your female character with a bust size of 38DDD or something was just as stupid. Games where you face is shown like Witcher 3 make sense to have your facial appearance change. Games where you face only appear in character stat screens doesn't do anything.

Was the first game bad because you couldn't design your face or body type?

My point in this is the addition of a "Huge emphasis on character creation" is a big fat nothing burger. It's a so what. It will have no impact on the game and without 3rd person there is no immersion.

But there are 3rd person scenes... So you WILL see your character.

Also you don't need it but if I creat a own character I like it if I can design him too.
 

jju_57

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But there are 3rd person scenes... So you WILL see your character.

Also you don't need it but if I creat a own character I like it if I can design him too.

First off the 3rd person scenes will most likely be from behind your character like almost every other 3rd person scene ever done. Seldom are they from the side like two people in a movie. So you get to see the back of your head and not your face. That's not to say you face won't appear. It will most likely appear but in the character stat screen.

Pronouns are a who different matter. I doubt if they ever even show up during the game except maybe on the character stat screen before your name which is lame.

You also seem to miss my point. It's not that you like it or don't like it. It is that the devs are making it a BIG deal. The "HUGE EMPHASIS" part of their statement. Why? Where is this EMPHASIS going to be at? They are implying that it will mean a big deal IN the game and that the game matters about what you do. That to me appears to not be the case at all.

So I'm not debating if it should be in or not. I'm asking HOW will it matter. What about the game will this HUGE EMPHASIS of your character creation impact the game? I don't see how it does impact the game.

Body style which they mention impacts how? As I said if you're a fat body style does that mean your dexterity is low? A tall body style does that impact sneaking skills? Does a female body style mean you have less strength? So what am I missing here? How can body style impact the game and if it doesn't then why a huge emphasis?
 

Thure

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First off the 3rd person scenes will most likely be from behind your character like almost every other 3rd person scene ever done. Seldom are they from the side like two people in a movie. So you get to see the back of your head and not your face. That's not to say you face won't appear. It will most likely appear but in the character stat screen.

Pronouns are a who different matter. I doubt if they ever even show up during the game except maybe on the character stat screen before your name which is lame.

You also seem to miss my point. It's not that you like it or don't like it. It is that the devs are making it a BIG deal. The "HUGE EMPHASIS" part of their statement. Why? Where is this EMPHASIS going to be at? They are implying that it will mean a big deal IN the game and that the game matters about what you do. That to me appears to not be the case at all.

So I'm not debating if it should be in or not. I'm asking HOW will it matter. What about the game will this HUGE EMPHASIS of your character creation impact the game? I don't see how it does impact the game.

Body style which they mention impacts how? As I said if you're a fat body style does that mean your dexterity is low? A tall body style does that impact sneaking skills? Does a female body style mean you have less strength? So what am I missing here? How can body style impact the game and if it doesn't then why a huge emphasis?

It's a RPG based on a table top game. Players of this genre are mostly people who like character creation and it's a big part of playing your own character if you can make him a character and not a predetermined face you can't change. See... it's not important for YOU but there are people who prefer character creation A LOT.
 

jju_57

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It's a RPG based on a table top game. Players of this genre are mostly people who like character creation and it's a big part of playing your own character if you can make him a character and not a predetermined face you can't change. See... it's not important for YOU but there are people who prefer character creation A LOT.

In the table top game you create a character based on stats. You don't pick body style. You don't create a face.

And once again you clearly miss the point. I'm not asking if it's "important" or not. I'm asking what impact it has. It wasn't me that claimed dchosing a body style and pronoun would be a 'huge emphasis". I take it from your answer you have zero clue on the impact and that it won't mean anything in the actual game. BTW you must have hated the first game as you couldn't create a face for your character.
 

Lord_Eol

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You wouldn't do it in the tabletop version, so why do it here?

Because most people, at least on this thread, don't want a RPG

I'm not asking if it's "important" or not. I'm asking what impact it has

The impact is on sales, nothing more nothing less. It's a way to signal. What is important is the hundred of hours of developer time spent on this was determined to be more valuable than spending on other aspects of the game.
 

Thure

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In the table top game you create a character based on stats. You don't pick body style. You don't create a face.

And once again you clearly miss the point. I'm not asking if it's "important" or not. I'm asking what impact it has. It wasn't me that claimed dchosing a body style and pronoun would be a 'huge emphasis". I take it from your answer you have zero clue on the impact and that it won't mean anything in the actual game. BTW you must have hated the first game as you couldn't create a face for your character.

I don't hate a game just because I can't create a character. But it would have improved the game. I don't want to be a BDSM Nosferatu and there is a reason why there are mods for stuff like this.
Also of course in table top games you create a character's look. Or do you play without ever saying how your character looks like? Without having an image how he looks? For most people the character is not just stats. Roleplayers care more about the character himself than about his stats.
And no, how should I know? I'm not a dev. They already explained how the background has an impact. Like if you were a policeman before and a quest sends you to the police station. You can just go into the office, because they know you. If you have another background you don't get that easily into the office. And as others have explained. The impact are sales. Get more RPG fans as customers.
 

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People love character creation, people love creating themselves in video games. It's a very simple joy of roleplaying games. VTMB2 is a roleplaying game, and I imagine everyone in this thread and this part of the forum wants to play VTMB2 the RPG.

So of course more character creation options matter, and I hope that they will have impact in their own ways on both the story and maybe our character stats. It's silly that we have a discussion on whether or not character creation matters. Are we going to discuss whether we really need music in the game? Ambient noise? Graphics? Voiced conversations? All of these add something to the game, even though they may not have a direct gameplay impact.
 

Dih

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Hmm... The plot thickens...
aXMnLkT.jpg
Who is this woman? have more character faces?
o_o
 

jju_57

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So of course more character creation options matter, and I hope that they will have impact in their own ways on both the story and maybe our character stats. It's silly that we have a discussion on whether or not character creation matters. Are we going to discuss whether we really need music in the game? Ambient noise? Graphics? Voiced conversations? All of these add something to the game, even though they may not have a direct gameplay impact.

Sounds, voice dialogue certainly do have a game impact. In the first game if you used a gun for a sneak kill it would reveal you while a knife or the sneak kill itself wouldn't. The sounds in the haunted hotel added important gameplay. The voices in your Malkavian head added gameplay. How you looked in the first game added nothing, unless you were a Nos clan vampire.

It's silly because you can't answer the question because there is no reason game wise for it to be included. As I said if this was 3rd person it would make much more sense. But if you can't see your face then what does it matter what your face looks like?

People love character creation, people love creating themselves in video games.

Except this isn't even true. You NEVER create yourself. Did you create yourself in any ME game? WItcher?, Skyrim?, Fallout? etc., etc. You created a character and in many of those games it was a character that already was at least partially defined. No character creation system is good enough to create your face.
 

Menome

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Except this isn't even true. You NEVER create yourself. Did you create yourself in any ME game? WItcher?, Skyrim?, Fallout? etc., etc. You created a character and in many of those games it was a character that already was at least partially defined. No character creation system is good enough to create your face.

I think you've taken "themselves" too literally from that person's post? I believe they meant players creating themselves as the characters they've created. For instance, if I've come up with an idea of what my character who we'll call "Elizabeth" is, I can spend ages just in the character creator fine-tuning everything to make her look as close to how I imagined her in my head.

EDIT: At tabletop groups I've been in, we take the time to describe what our characters look like, speak like, how their mannerisms are. The more artistic ones may do sketches of their portraits too.
 

Avout

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In the table top game you create a character based on stats. You don't pick body style. You don't create a face.
The description of the character (some character sheets even have a space for a portrait) is a classic step in the creation of a character in table top games, WoD included. Many chronicles begin with the players describing their character (both physically and psychologically) in the first scene.

It's silly because you can't answer the question because there is no reason game wise for it to be included. As I said if this was 3rd person it would make much more sense. But if you can't see your face then what does it matter what your face looks like?

I would totally prefer a 3rd person game too, but between a 1st person game with some glimpses of my character and a 100% 1st game (let's say like portal), i'll choose the former one :)
 

jju_57

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And how do you know that you won't be able to see your face?

So do you see your face in 1st person games? That's how I know. I already said "outside of some character stat screen".
 

TaurianMerc

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First off the 3rd person scenes will most likely be from behind your character like almost every other 3rd person scene ever done. Seldom are they from the side like two people in a movie. So you get to see the back of your head and not your face. That's not to say you face won't appear. It will most likely appear but in the character stat screen.

Source? Do you have some insight into the development of this game that the rest of us don't? You have no idea how the third person portions of the game will work. Regardless, some of us have something called an imagination and we like to use it, even if we don't get to see the face during normal play.

Pronouns are a who different matter. I doubt if they ever even show up during the game except maybe on the character stat screen before your name which is lame.

Again, unless you have some insight it's all conjecture. It doesn't take much to change single short sentences, you don't have rerecord the entire conversation.

The "HUGE EMPHASIS" part of their statement. Why? Where is this EMPHASIS going to be at? They are implying that it will mean a big deal IN the game and that the game matters about what you do. That to me appears to not be the case at all.

AGAIN, appears from where. We have next to no information on this game so far. You explicitly state "that to me appears to not be the case at all" so tell me, appears from what?

I'm asking HOW will it matter. What about the game will this HUGE EMPHASIS of your character creation impact the game? I don't see how it does impact the game.

How does anything matter? It's art, it's all up to you as the audience as to how it matters.

Body style which they mention impacts how? As I said if you're a fat body style does that mean your dexterity is low? A tall body style does that impact sneaking skills? Does a female body style mean you have less strength? So what am I missing here? How can body style impact the game and if it doesn't then why a huge emphasis?

Are you now being deliberately facetious? You've already discussed that there will be third person segments to the game, plus (unmentioned so far) the possibility of seeing your reflection.

In the table top game you create a character based on stats. You don't pick body style. You don't create a face.

Maybe you don't, but everyone I've known and played with does. It's the reason they have spaces for this sort of stuff on the character sheets.

And once again you clearly miss the point. I'm not asking if it's "important" or not. I'm asking what impact it has. It wasn't me that claimed dchosing a body style and pronoun would be a 'huge emphasis". I take it from your answer you have zero clue on the impact and that it won't mean anything in the actual game.

See my previous responses with regards to it being art and the impact is up to the consumer, and also this strange insight you seem to have into a game for which we have not seen anything.

Because most people, at least on this thread, don't want a RPG
The impact is on sales, nothing more nothing less. It's a way to signal. What is important is the hundred of hours of developer time spent on this was determined to be more valuable than spending on other aspects of the game.

Seriously. If you already hate this game why are you still here? There are people here who want to engage in serious discourse, if all you want to do is criticise something the hasn't even been released yet, go down speaker's corner.

Can we please get this thread back on topic and limit it to things that have been revealed to be (even potentially) in the game.
 

Vahouth

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So do you see your face in 1st person games? That's how I know. I already said "outside of some character stat screen".
Have you played Deus Ex? Because that's the game they're comparing VtMBL2 with.
You can see you character's face
1. in dialogue
2. in contextual super moves
3. in cinematics
4. while in cover
Heck, they can even include a vanity mode to ogle yourself!
 

DebbieElla

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Stay on topic please, if you want to discuss the politics of the game there are other threads for that.