What we know about unrest and standard of living

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GC13

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Going by what I've been able to spot in the livestreams, an enslaved Pop increases Unrest by 3/8 points for every point its Happiness is below forty (meaning a nice round 15 Unrest at 0% happiness), a free Pop increases Unrest by 1/2 for every point its Happiness is below forty, and a free Pop appears to reduce Unrest by 1/12 for every point its Happiness is above sixty.

All armies reduce planetary Unrest by ten each; Spiritualist and Fanatic Spiritualist will reduce Unrest by ten and twenty points respectively; Authoritarian and Fanatic Authoritarian will reduce Unrest generated by your slaves by 10% and 20% respectively. Slave Processing Facilities reduce slave Unrest by 50%. Your capital gets a flat -10 Unrest reduction. There is also a Civic bonus called Police State that can give you another flat -20 Unrest on each planet.

If a planet has Unrest, its production of minerals, energy, science, and unity is reduced by an amount based on the planet's modified Unrest (last number I saw, it was a percentage equal to half of the modified Unrest). Though I can't be sure whether it's applied after everything else, or as a normal modifier to the tile, the indentation appears to imply that it's a multiplier after everything else.

Pops take their base happiness from their faction if they're a member of one, but can also be modified by the standard of living you allow their species and their type of slavery.

Chattel slavery gives an enslaved Pop -30% happiness, while Livestock gives such an enormous penalty they will always be at 0% happiness (-10,000% happiness, I believe). As an aside, if you're curious about what Livestock does it seems to add +2 Food to the base yield of any tile they're on, and zero out any resource other than food. So they'd produce two food on a blank tile, seven food on a farm tile which produces five food with a normal Pop, etc...

As for standard of living, it operates as you'd expect: giving your Pops a lousy standard of living isn't as cheap as spending a lot on a good standard is expensive. I've only seen the top three basic ones with their full tooltips, but I've seen enough of the other Pops to know the numbers for the bottom two basic ones as well.
Code:
Name                   Happiness  Goods
Utopian Abundance       +20%      2.00
Social Welfare          +10%      1.50
Decent                   +0%      1.00
Impoverished Conditions -10%      0.75
Basic Subsistence       -20%      0.50

(If I may add an aside, "social welfare" as better than normal just does not sound right. Why not call it something like Comfortable, or Improved, Conditions?)

Allowing an alien species Residence rather than Full Citizenship gives them -5% happiness, but makes their consumer goods 10% cheaper.

Modifiers like Egalitarian's, Residence's, and Conservational's -10% consumer goods cost, and Caste System's -25% consumer goods cost are applied per-species as a reduction in the cost of a consumer good, which has a base cost of 0.5 minerals per month per consumer good.

I don't know if there's a way to change it, but slaves under a caste system seem to automatically have a lower standard of living set than their race's, being set to Impoverished Conditions in the tooltips I saw.
 
Last edited:

aono

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(If I may add an aside, "social welfare" as better than normal just does not sound right. Why not call it something like Comfortable, or Improved, Conditions?)
...that's a proof Marx was wrong! In his works the very idea that "social welfare" is normal looks ridiculous!
Sorry. Thanks for your work.
 

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You're welcome. I was quite heartened to see just how high Unrest can become. (I may wish that Authoritarian didn't have to use slaves to get its biggest benefits, but at least it's possible for it to be competitive with Spiritualist for Unrest reduction.)

Also, I'm serious on the "social welfare" thing. It makes me think of "impoverished conditions", not +50% consumer goods consumption.
 

wurmkrank

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You're welcome. I was quite heartened to see just how high Unrest can become. (I may wish that Authoritarian didn't have to use slaves to get its biggest benefits, but at least it's possible for it to be competitive with Spiritualist for Unrest reduction.)

Also, I'm serious on the "social welfare" thing. It makes me think of "impoverished conditions", not +50% consumer goods consumption.
why would it make you think of impoverished conditions? Social welfare means things like socialized healthcare and public education or universal basic income. Also, does this mean that a planet full of livestock is going to have an insanely high unrest?
 

wurmkrank

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I would expect sentient species to be upset about being raised as livestock or processed.
yeah obviously. It just seems like this new system of putting an entire species under one category like "slave" or "livestock" is going to be problematic. If you invade a pre-ftl you can't take some pops as mineral slaves and some pops as livestock, it seems as though you have to put the entire species under one category. So what happens when you have three planets of one alien species and they're all livestock? Mass unmanageable revolts?
 

garbud

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yeah obviously. It just seems like this new system of putting an entire species under one category like "slave" or "livestock" is going to be problematic. If you invade a pre-ftl you can't take some pops as mineral slaves and some pops as livestock, it seems as though you have to put the entire species under one category. So what happens when you have three planets of one alien species and they're all livestock? Mass unmanageable revolts?
lots and lots of armys most likely
 

Sportsmaster

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yeah, social welfare is closer to utopian abundance than "decent," certainly moreso than impoverished. I mean, an empire that intervenes to improve the well being of its pops is certainly an empire with a higher quality of life than one that does not. I am not sure where you are from, but social welfare does not mean "impoverished." players are free to abstract their own empire economics as they role play, but the living standards spectrum makes sense as it is.

thanks for documenting all this, though.
 
Last edited:

Me_

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Also, I'm serious on the "social welfare" thing. It makes me think of "impoverished conditions", not +50% consumer goods consumption.
It's reference to the idea of a "welfare state" such as Sweden, where taxes are high but the state provides a wide range of services. It'sused here because Paradox is Swedish, so this is the term that copmes to the Devs' minds when they think of such a situation.

I mean, an empire that intervenes to improve the well being of its pops is certainly an empire with a higher quality of life than one that does not.
That's pure socialist propaganda, to be fair. A state where people are capable of taking care of themselves is not a universal impossibility, just something that our limited human abilities haven't managed to realize yet.
 

wurmkrank

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It's reference to the idea of a "welfare state" such as Sweden, where taxes are high but the state provides a wide range of services. It'sused here because Paradox is Swedish, so this is the term that copmes to the Devs' minds when they think of such a situation.


That's pure socialist propaganda, to be fair. A state where people are capable of taking care of themselves is not a universal impossibility, just something that our limited human abilities haven't managed to realize yet.
high living standards can also be interpreted as low taxes and prices of living driven so low from free market capitalism that living like royalty is simply so cheap that even someone doing the lowliest of jobs can afford it. Don't tell the Communists though, they might punch you in the face for crushing their worldview.
 

Alblaka

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Question, does high happyness still grant a bonus to ressource output?
I didn't see that tooltip show up once in the stream, and I'm worried they removed it to 'balance' the influence of happyness on unrest.

Which would lead to happyness becoming completely irrelevant in 1.5, since you can just stack armies up against unrest anyways.
 

Ikael

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Great info! Now, judging from it:

- Unrest reduction will be a really handy skill to have. Might as well become the main advantage of spiritual empires
- I do hope that they buff cattle output, right now it looks more like a "get instant revolt" button
- Cool to see armies reducing unrest output so we might have Ottoman empires... in space! Now, willl we be getting army manteinance discount for dictatorships?
- Cool to see the effects of living standards, now I hope that happiness will be as much of a powerful bonus as it used to be rather than some kind of mechanism for decreasing unrest
 

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That's pure socialist propaganda, to be fair. A state where people are capable of taking care of themselves is not a universal impossibility, just something that our limited human abilities haven't managed to realize yet.
That concept is neither socialist nor propaganda.

Any empire which actively invests resources in the quality of life of its pops—even if that should mean supporting their sustainable well being and independence—is necessarily an empire with a higher standard of living than one that does not—even if those pops were already capable of "taking care of themselves." At least in Stellaris, where those resources come from, how they are prioritized, who distributes them, is mostly up to players to imagine. By themselves, the settings for living standards do not identify the means of production for our empires. The settings for purging, slavery, and leadership on the other hand...
 
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wurmkrank

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Great info! Now, judging from it:

- Unrest reduction will be a really handy skill to have. Might as well become the main advantage of spiritual empires
- I do hope that they buff cattle output, right now it looks more like a "get instant revolt" button
- Cool to see armies reducing unrest output so we might have Ottoman empires... in space! Now, willl we be getting army manteinance discount for dictatorships?
- Cool to see the effects of living standards, now I hope that happiness will be as much of a powerful bonus as it used to be rather than some kind of mechanism for decreasing unrest
maybe livestock won't contribute to unrest. They have 0 production on other tiles so one has to ask if they are even kept conscious.
 

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Hm, so productivity from happiness is basically a planetwide average now? That's probably a good thing, otherwise I might be tempted to move pops around all the time (I only want HAPPY researchers!).
 

Alblaka

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- Unrest reduction will be a really handy skill to have. Might as well become the main advantage of spiritual empires
Actually, quite the opposite.
You can just invest 60 minerals per 5 unrest to permanently remove said unrest for a minor upkeep of 0.x energy.
 

masteriw

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That's pure socialist propaganda

You're overthinking the game with real-life, human, modern politics.
There is no laissez-faire vs welfare debate in this game. There is no civilian economy, there is no world market, this is (sadly) not Victoria 2.
If you had an option to let your POPs be economically free you'd end up with the same effect: taking away minerals from the state income, just like social welfare does now. If you made that more powerful than welfare for "efficiency" reasons, then it would be look just like pure anti-socialist propaganda without a proper economy model like Victoria 2's.
 
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