What to look for in a court physician?

[Chep]

Hey there,

I was hoping some of you might know how the success of treatments depends on the skills of the court physician

- does his education level matter?
- do traits like genius/quick matter?
- is it only based on learning & the physician trait? If so: is there a cap after which more learning doesn't matter? And is a 25 learning no physician-trait guy better than a 15 learning physician with the trait?

Thanks in advance.

 

[darkemperor]

well i do always pick the guys with more learning to be my physician and you should always change them if they get the dull trait, and i think the more positive traits they have the better for you .

 

[Poliut]

The field surgeon one is pretty awesome. He tends to have good martial and good learning, giving me not only a physician, but also a commander and court tutor.

 

[Boodas]

Make sure your physician actually likes you.

 

[Serenity84]

Certain traits matter a lot

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Court_Physician#Treatment_outcome

 

[Chep]

thank you @Serenity84 for actually answering my question

so, since I'm playing a Jewish empire the Physicians education doesn't matter (since Jewish sets the "good trigger"), right?

And what happens if my physician is stressed? Does he get both the good AND the bad trigger? Or does one overwrite the other?

And having a good (learning 25+) doc makes experimental treatments WORSE? WTF? Is that correct?

 

[Kapitalisti]

I've had a lot of fun with nutty mystics. Not healthy fun of course, but...

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

Hey there,

I was hoping some of you might know how the success of treatments depends on the skills of the court physician

- does his education level matter?
- do traits like genius/quick matter?
- is it only based on learning & the physician trait? If so: is there a cap after which more learning doesn't matter? And is a 25 learning no physician-trait guy better than a 15 learning physician with the trait?

Thanks in advance.

Avoid Court Physicans who hate you, who are blind, drunkard, and/or cruel
Look for "smart" ones, or, if you like it, mystics :-D

 

[Evangeline]

The modifiers stack, so if the physician is Jewish AND has good education, the chances of a good treatment are still higher than if he had only one positive factor.

 

[Chep]

are you sure about that? @Evangeline (also a big thank you to you for trying to help me and not answering your own questions like many others here)

because on the wiki it says that this is an "OR" thing, and from what I've seen here (admittedly I don't read the code that well) https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ial-physicians-vs-high-learning-chars.965952/ it supports that wiki-statement, that it's just a trigger/flag that gets set when one of those conditions is fulfilled.

 

[Karlington]

so, since I'm playing a Jewish empire the Physicians education doesn't matter (since Jewish sets the "good trigger"), right?

Provided that the physician is Jewish he will hit the trigger, yes. Your own personal religion will not affect him, though.

And what happens if my physician is stressed? Does he get both the good AND the bad trigger? Or does one overwrite the other?

They don't cancel out, so he will get both. Hence you want one that hits the good trigger but not the bad trigger. This means that having your physician as court tutor is not always the best choice if he has the potential to trigger one of those "benefit the ward at the cost of getting Stressed"-events.

And having a good (learning 25+) doc makes experimental treatments WORSE? WTF? Is that correct?

No, more likely to choose the "drastic" treatment. This is the treatment that does some form of severe harm (amputation or making you Lunatic) but can cure the illness outright. Usually not recommended unless suffering from a fatal disease like rabies or the bubonic plague.

He will only ever do this if you ask him for an extreme treatment, so if you just have the flu, ask for regular treatment.

I've had a lot of fun with nutty mystics. Not healthy fun of course, but...

I love Mystic physicians. I mean, "Your disease has been cured, and oh, you've now got the Poet trait!" is hard to beat.

(On the other side of the coin, "Your disease is not cured, and you gained most of the seven deadly sins" is not much fun...)

The modifiers stack, so if the physician is Jewish AND has good education, the chances of a good treatment are still higher than if he had only one positive factor.

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I'm not quite sure how to say this in a nice manner, so I'll just out and say it: please don't try to provide advice to people when you are unaware of the facts of the matter. Your statement is unfortunately incorrect. With the physician_good_trigger it's either on, or it's not. Having multiple of the requirements in it will make no difference.

 

[Chep]

yeah sorry, I meant pretty much everyone in my court is Jewish, except maybe a random rich courtier I'm inviting for his money, but that one definitely won't have a job.

I also learned my lesson in not giving my Physician any other jobs (as for example he won't treat some people at my court if he is busy as court chapellain), and he definitely wont be court tutor (thats almost always either wife or mom due to best stats)

so...if I understand this correctly: choosing experimental treatment will usually result in "just" a regular treatment but in 20-50% of the cases (depending on stats/traits) he chooses the actual "experimental" treatment where he cuts something off your body? Okay now it makes sense.

And yeah Mystics are fun and one of the reasons I was wondering which factors to prioritize, but from that table they dont really look all that great.

 

[Karlington]

so...if I understand this correctly: choosing experimental treatment will usually result in "just" a regular treatment but in 20-50% of the cases (depending on stats/traits) he chooses the actual "experimental" treatment where he cuts something off your body? Okay now it makes sense.

I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but yeah, you got the general idea right. The experimental treatment can also result in a treatment of the regular sort, but where the mitigators are 3 och each stat and health rather than just 2 as successful regular treatment.

And yeah Mystics are fun and one of the reasons I was wondering which factors to prioritize, but from that table they dont really look all that great.

It really is a crapshoot with Mystic. It can be great, it can suck. Best to avoid it if you are uncomfortable taking the risk with the ruler involved.

Sometimes it works out really well even when it's not intended to by Paradox, heh. I once had a Genius second son and a first son and heir who was just alright. I was working on getting rid of the heir, when I got ill (I think it was camp fever). "Well," I figured, "I guess the average son will take over then." But I tried the mystic treatment and what did the physician do? He murdered my heir to get the power to cure my disease! There I was, suddenly as healthy as can be, with my Genius son as my new heir!

I got a traitor opinion modifier and cause for arrest on the physician, but you better believe he was never touched and spent the rest of his life serving as my physician.

 

[Chep]

yeah, that is indeed a cool & lucky outcome, but since I'm always running either elective monarchy or tanistry, I dont really have that issue and only use the mystic when it's an extreme case.

but okay, I think you and serenity have thoroughly answered my questions, so thank you two a lot!

 

[Evangeline]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I'm not quite sure how to say this in a nice manner, so I'll just out and say it: please don't try to provide advice to people when you are unaware of the facts of the matter. Your statement is unfortunately incorrect. With the physician_good_trigger it's either on, or it's not. Having multiple of the requirements in it will make no difference.

The question was not about the physician_good_trigger, which provides one bonus, but about increasing positive treatment outcome. The trigger is indeed either/or, but there are other factors, as well:

If you have a strong patient, your physician has high learning, he's a renowned physician, he's Jewish AND also has a high opinion of you, the chances of positive treatment will get better and better with each of those factors. While it's true that it doesn't matter if your Jewish physician also has a learned trait other than Renowned Physician (because learned trait + Jewish influence one factor together). However, with Renowned Physician, he will get the 1.2x from this trigger, but also *another* 1.2x from "Renowned Physician", which is why it is listed separately and not only under the physician_good_trigger modifier. So, if you already have a doc who is Jewish, then yes, it would benefit if he also becomes a Renowned Physician, because that adds another bonus.

So, while you're correct about the on/off conditions of this one modifier, the other modifiers do count and add to the equation and we were speaking about all modifiers together, not just this one.

 

[Chep]

uhm no, you answered to a specific question, it doesn't matter because I eventually the correct answer but we were actually just speaking about this one modifier, because everything else was already made clear, if you dont believe me go read your own answer again:

The modifiers stack, so if the physician is Jewish AND has good education, the chances of a good treatment are still higher than if he had only one positive factor.

 

[Karlington]

The question was not about the physician_good_trigger, which provides one bonus, but about increasing positive treatment outcome. The trigger is indeed either/or, but there are other factors, as well:

[screenshot removed]

If you have a strong patient, your physician has high learning, he's a renowned physician, he's Jewish AND also has a high opinion of you, the chances of positive treatment will get better and better with each of those factors. While it's true that it doesn't matter if your Jewish physician also has a learned trait other than Renowned Physician (because learned trait + Jewish influence one factor together). However, with Renowned Physician, he will get the 1.2x from this trigger, but also *another* 1.2x from "Renowned Physician", which is why it is listed separately and not only under the physician_good_trigger modifier. So, if you already have a doc who is Jewish, then yes, it would benefit if he also becomes a Renowned Physician, because that adds another bonus.

So, while you're correct about the on/off conditions of this one modifier, the other modifiers do count and add to the equation and we were speaking about all modifiers together, not just this one.

Right, though what you wrote in your first post was:

The modifiers stack, so if the physician is Jewish AND has good education, the chances of a good treatment are still higher than if he had only one positive factor.

(emphasis added)

That was the part that was incorrect, because being Jewish and having a good education (Scholarly/Mastermind Theologian) both just trigger the physician_good_trigger, so having both of those will not be better than having just one of them.

I have no problem with this most recent response of yours, however.

 

[Karlington]

yeah, that is indeed a cool & lucky outcome, but since I'm always running either elective monarchy or tanistry, I dont really have that issue and only use the mystic when it's an extreme case.

but okay, I think you and serenity have thoroughly answered my questions, so thank you two a lot!

No problem, happy to help!

 

[Evangeline]

Your exact question which I tried to answer was "so, since I'm playing a Jewish empire the Physicians education doesn't matter (since Jewish sets the "good trigger"), right?"

So, with Jewish, you indeed already get the 1.2x modifier for physician_good, but with "Renowned Physician" in addition to this, you get an additional 1.2x modifier (listed earlier), so these do stack. Just like having the patient be strong and your physician liking you gives you an additional modifier for the randomized outcome.

Now if you had asked about e.g. Erudite - then no, this would not have stacked, since this is not listed separately and you already have this benefit due to him being Jewish.

Hope this makes it clearer what I meant.

P.S. I guess I misunderstood your question a bit, I thought it referred to his Physician education (Renowned Physician), not to his general education (e.g. Mastermind Theologian etc.)

 

[Chep]

okay so the issue was that you considered the trait "physician" an education, while it isn't one they can be mistaken/confused, these things happen, so dont worry about it.