What to do with the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

[dr eng1ish]

Quick Background, I started as Duke of Connacht, united and became King of Ireland and also gained the Duchy of Lothian and a few counties in Scotland from my half-sister. I answered the Pope's call to arms and was the highest contributor to the succesful Crusade for Jerusalem and so now I am King of Jerusalem as well with all the titles and counties under it. My demesne size is 30/8 so I know I need to distribute some titles. This is my first game of any real length so I'm still learning how everything works.

So, what should I do? Or more simply, what are my options? My plan was to give out the duchies, counties and bisophrics to dynasty members/same culture and just keep the king title but again I don't know if that's even a good idea. I have no idea how hard it will be to defend or if I even want to try.

I searched but did not find much discussion about this kingdom. My apologies if this post is in the wrong place or is otherwise disfunctional. Thanks for any help/tips in advance.

 

[Maukka]

You could always give the kingdom of Jerusalem to someone of your dynasty. You'd be allied to them and it'd increase your dynasty score.

 

[Sopot]

It's pretty rough to keep a hold of, I usually just give it away to the Pope, depending on my strength.

 

[emperor12]

When I fist took the Jerusalem I held it for 5 years. Those 5 years where filled with civil war the Lords in the Jerusalem and wanted independence and also Jihad being called to recapture Jerusalem. I think you should let the land go give someone the kingdom of Jerusalem. The land is not worth it.

 

[Alerias]

I pretty much always keep the KOJ and personally I find it absolutely worth it. The only problem is the initial period of time when the land is still Sunni and gives no taxes, and if its given to AI hands in this period it WILL most likely fall to Jihad. If you want it to be successful, you should keep it.

Put Irishmen in control of all cities, bishoprics, counties, etc. Give the duchies to lords of your dynasty if possible. Then you have a choice to make: where to rule from. Distance between Ireland and Jerusalem is great and will promote rebellions. You can either rule from either and just be ready to pamper your nobles at the other end of the realm, or you can capture Sicily and rule from Palermo, one of the best locations for a capital IMO.

If you really want to give away one of the two kingdoms, you can, but personally, I'd say you'll have a more fun game if you give away Ireland (should you opt to do so) to a Dynast and rule over Jerusalem than the other way around. Another excellent option that may not apply is to give away a Kingdom to a childless celibate or old brother/infant, giving you excellent odds to be able to recover it at any time with an assassination or two should you change your mind. This could for instance be a way to 'assume direct control' back over the KOJ once it come under Jihad threat. Finally, even though this is a bit less predictable, you can of course give the other kingdom to your heir-apparent. You have less control over your own death than someone else's, but this path ensures that unless your heir changes unpredictably, you'll inherit the other Kingdom later, and it will give your heir higher prestige in the meantime (though landing your heir comes with its own set of risks).

 

[icon41gimp]

Give the counties to dukes in your home realm. It's not a dramatic increase in their power and there is no distance penalty.

Alternatively give the entire duchy to individual courtiers with no history (hire them new). They will almost certainly revolt before marrying and having children. So just lock them up let them sit under house arrest. The lands will eventually roll back to the crown, and hopefully at this point they will provide levies and tax income so an independent can actually hold them.

 

[Alerias]

The second is quite gamey but eh

Personally I do think there should be some sort of support from the Catholic realms to a brand new Crusader-state. It would be quite historical; wealthy knights, prilgrims, second-sons and powerful clerics settled in the KOJ, bringing an influx of power and wealth that compensated for a time the relative poverty of the land and allowed (the king of) Jerusalem to be the strongest force in the Levant until the rise of Saladin, at which point Papal and Crusader support had dwindled.

By constrast, in game, a fresh Crusader Kingdom is at its weakest, has no income, the Crusaders vanish as the Kings of Christendom disband their levy on the very day of victory, and the King of Jerusalem is as thus wholly dependent for defense to be in personal union with the HRE (which is generally the case in a hands off game). Any other scenario likely means a successful counter-jihad within a few years.

Some good steps already exist, thanks to the scripted castles that the Holy Orders create over time in Jerusalem... but more is probably needed. Perhaps the Pope could share a (dwindling) fraction of his large income with any Crusader state? For balance, perhaps this should only happen if Jerusalem holds no other Crowns? Throw in a (dwindling) manpower boost too. Then just giving it away to a second son will actually be an option.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Same thing happened to me (not Irish though). After I won the Crusade, I didn't want to leave Jerusalem at the mercy of its neighbors for the years it took to overcome its conquered penalties so I kept it. I distrubuted the titles to Dukes back home, except for a few provinces and one Duchy title to accelerate tech speed in my own demesne back home. Within a century Jerusalem was all my culture and because of the demesne bonuses from holding those advanced provinces, my homeland was the most advanced area north of the Pyrenees. to keep revolts down, I switched to raising Charismatic Kings instead of my previous favorite trait, Midas Touched, marrying for stewardship and learning to partly make up for losing the trait.

 

[Alerias]

I switched to raising Charismatic Kings instead of my previous favorite trait, Midas Touched, marrying for stewardship and learning to partly make up for losing the trait.

+1

I made "the switch" when the current patch came out. I pretty much always aim for this setup now: Grey Eminence on the throne, with a lusty bride with a Midas touch in the bedroom. Life is good.

 

[tdpatriots12]

What I did when I took Egypt on Crusade in a similar scenario - had united Ireland, also held Wales and Brittany - was split the kingdoms.

Once Egypt was nearly done with its wrong religion/culture penalty, I changed my primary title to Egypt, and set the elective succession heir to the person I wanted to play as. It was important to wait, as my original holdings were basically subsidizing the defense of the new realm. Then I nominated brothers (or uncles, as the case may have been) to take over Ireland, Wales, and Brittany.

All I had to do was wait, eventually I was playing as the King of Egypt and it was like starting a whole new game. Ended up taking the rest of Africa and much of Arabia.

Edit: Making rulers Grey Eminences and spouses Midas Touched does seem like a good plan.

 

[ajm317]

In my first game I also played as Ireland and had Jerusalem and Egypt.

They were a constant headache. Because of the huge distance penalty to revolt risks even dukes who had +90 relations with me would sometimes revolt.

As others suggest I recommend splitting the kingdoms. Either give the whole thing to a brother and forget about it, or hold onto it until the recently conquered penalties expire and then split it.

From a gameplay perspective you may want to consider doing the split the other way, wait until the recently conquered penalties expire and give Ireland to a brother. Ireland is pretty poor, and as memory serves the Kingdom of Jerusalem can actually be quite powerful once you convert it.

 

[knppel]

Install Lord Mayors and Doges, one Prince-Bishop per Duchy for faster conversion.
Send your court Chaplain for even faster conversion.
Profit from immense technology values in a bunch of most coastal provinces and earn money after 10-15 years.
Just hold it until then, yeah. I only once managed to do that when the Shia Caliphate went heretic and thus did not join any holy wars anymore.
You better had piety for holy orders and standing mercs down there in the beginning, otherwise it will be spammed with peasant revolts, independence wars and muslims.

 

[Gugli3]

I pretty much always keep the KOJ and personally I find it absolutely worth it. The only problem is the initial period of time when the land is still Sunni and gives no taxes, and if its given to AI hands in this period it WILL most likely fall to Jihad. If you want it to be successful, you should keep it.

I've been awarded several Crusades, the first, Africa, was a royal PITA. After researching here I immediately gave away the next 3 to the Knights Templar because I was about to campaign and have a thing abut fighting on two fronts. Two were Jerusalem and one was Andalusia. The Knights didn't ever lose the territory, and even expanded in Andalusia.

Thanks to Stolen Rutters for the tip about Charismatic Rulers. Next time around, depending on where I am in the game, I'd like to give all that a shot.

 

[grumphie]

i'd:

1. keep it. keep the larger and more rich duchies n counties for yourself
2. give all your holdings, save for your capital, away to other dukes, but more importantly, your succesor(i.e. your brother)ect.
3. give away all rest holdings in jeruzalem, save for ONE county/barony for when yur capitla is about to be given away. give them to LOCALLY cultured people, not irish ones.
4. start converitng counties
5. once the holy war penalty is gone, give away your final holding in ireland and fully go for jeruzalem. vasselise the holy orders, expand into other muslim states, create carnage. much mroe fun area, and a grat powerhosue once you have egypt.

 

[dr eng1ish]

Thanks for the tips and suggestions guys. I want to focus on the British Isles, my long-term goal for this game was to unify them so even though it sounds like I could be more powerful moving to Jerusalem, I'm gonna stay in Ireland. I also don't have many lords of my dynasty as my two sons other than my heir died in the crusade. So I gave most of the counties to my dukes and am keeping the Kingdom title for now, sent my chaplain to convert the infidels.

I should reiterate that I don't understand a lot of stuff in this game so even as I'm trying to follow some of your tips I'm probably doing it wrong! Anyways we'll see how it goes, I'll pop back in later with an update of how it went. For now I'm raking in the money at least in comparison to before, I assume it's only a matter of time before revolts and/or invasions begin though.

Sidenote: this game is amazing

 

[Da-V-Man]

I did this too, if you don't want to keep the Kingdom, at the least create the title, as it comes with a big bonus to prestige and piety. Also, make sure your succession laws are the same in all your kingdoms.

Not sure if you know this yet, but for the bottom tier holdings in a county(City, Bishopric and Barony), if you right click on the picture of the holding and click on the crown icon, it will automatically create a new vassal and give that title to him.

 

[NewbieOne]

Don't overcalculate. First distribute the bishoprics, then cities. Don't be afraid to auto-generate vassals if you don't really feel like assigning certain people as bishops or mayors. For example I tend not to assign knightly types as mayors, just a roleplaying quirk.

Then consider things like the number of counties in duchies you want to keep, as in you don't want to be forced to hoard ducal titles to manage all the counties that are in your demesne (this is funny when you're able to hold 14 holdings in demesne...). I tend to award one duchy per person, they will soon combine them via inheritance anyway. (On the other hand, superdukes can be very helpful if you're capable of keeping such guys always loyal).

Look in my sig for a succession guide. This is very similar, only some things will not be relevant.

 

[ashertony]

How did you gift land to the Templars? That sounds awesome

 

[Frozen_Predator]

How did you gift land to the Templars? That sounds awesome

with grant landed title, they won't be vassals of you though, but there's a trick for that (invite claimant to court, give him land press claim, if you give him a duchy and after pressing assasinate him before unpausing then you should inherit the order, but this depends on a lot of factors)

During my last Brittany game I was in the first crusade for the piety to form the kingdom. then everything went nuts and I won the crusade, I kept Brittany and the Duchy of Jerusalem for myself (handing out my Irish Duchy for it) and eventually became a major power in the middle east after ditching both Ireland and Brittany and using Caïro and Jerusalem as my personal power base.

 

[Puking Panda]

When I win the Crusade to Jerusalem I usually give most of the counties to people that helped me during the crusade(in my last playthrough I invited Godfrey and Baldwin of Boulogne, made them generals in the Crusade and gave them both a few counties after I won). I always keep about 3-4 counties and give those, along with ALL the duchies, to my heir, and each time my ruler died, I'd give them to the next heir(untill I got a empire and gave them to a dynasty member to keep). Seeing as how duke vassals can hold as much duchies as they want without problem and the fact that your heir would always be very loyal to you, this usually is pretty effective.