I know this is available as a satellite to the USA, but i have absolutely no idea exactly what the hell this is. Is it even historical? I've never heard of New York seceeding to form a nation-state.
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Right, i now know what the Draft Riots are, but how does that relate to the Manhattan Commune? Does it have to do with the payment of a $300.00 "commutation fee" to be exempt from service? Its the only thing i can think of.
Best I could find using google is an alternate history novel called "The Difference Engine". Since Barrels are from Harry Turtledove's books, maybe the Manhattan Commune is from that?
jmhawk said:
IIRC that is the source of the idea - an American parallel to the Paris Commune.
Why the heck would a democratic country have any communists? Communism was created after the Russian Revolution, or should I say Marxist Leninism
Walter Model said:
I think you have things the wrong way round. The Commune was a deomcratic uprising against the Thrid Empire. The communists took their name from that (to suggest that they too were fighting against opression).
Against the Second EmpireKing said:
firstly.Secondly, the Second Empire was already dead by the time of the Commune. They revolted against the national-defense government and the results of the elections that did not suited what they wanted (Royalist landslide victory) and the fact that the government did not trust Paris (he was right) and wanted to take the guns of the city.
And during the commune, it was very far from democracy...
Emp_Palpatine said:Against the Second Empire
Secondly, the Second Empire was already dead by the time of the Commune. They revolted against the national-defense government and the results of the elections that did not suited what they wanted (Royalist landslide victory) and the fact that the government did not trust Paris (he was right) and wanted to take the guns of the city.
And during the commune, it was very far from democracy...
That's what I get from trying to work from memory.
jmhawk said:
Yes, the Manhattan Commune is in the Difference Engine, but it is meantioned only in passing. While written by Gibson and not Turtledove, I suspsect that is where it came from as well.
What is the Manhattan Commune?
Being from NYC, let me just say its the greatest Nation that Never Existed
Being from NYC, let me just say its the greatest Nation that Never Existed
Yeah, that would be Marxist Leninism.Walter Model said:
You got communists by the 1830-40's already, all those "communist idealists" that Marx blasted for being dreamy eyed fools; the St-Simonians, Charles Fourier etc.
And their brand of communism found a home in a bunch of pretty daring social experiments performed in the US actually; lots of "communistic" communities were formed.
Fourierism was alive and kicking in the States but pretty much no where else for the better part of the 19th c.
http://www.emersoncentral.com/fourierism_and_the_socialists.htm for an essay by Ralph Waldo Emerson on Fourierism & the New York association with it.
Given the flirtations of religious and non-religious utopian groupings across the continent with various forms of communism and anarchism, both inside and outside the USA, it is quite reasonable to have a communist government arising somewhere. Unfortunately the Commune does not seem able to spread the creed, and there is a lack of Communist, Anarchist and other Radical Socialist parties both in the US and elsewhere.
Hey ho, something is better than nothing!
Given the flirtations of religious and non-religious utopian groupings across the continent with various forms of communism and anarchism, both inside and outside the USA, it is quite reasonable to have a communist government arising somewhere. Unfortunately the Commune does not seem able to spread the creed, and there is a lack of Communist, Anarchist and other Radical Socialist parties both in the US and elsewhere.
Hey ho, something is better than nothing!
You must not have grown up during the Reagan Administration, because if you had you would know that communism=bad and must be quashed.Marxistbard said:What is the Manhattan Commune?
Being from NYC, let me just say its the greatest Nation that Never Existed
Can't be sure since I've never been a big US player, but isn't the Manhattan Commune one of the other possibilities in the ACW? I know New England can secede, I'd figure its the same idea.