What should Influence be used for?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Liggi

Lt. General
80 Badges
Mar 28, 2017
1.273
8.777
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
As of the 3.3 Open Beta, I find myself usually drowning in Influence with not much to spend it on.

It feels like we're missing a few Influence sinks?

Does anyone have any ideas of what those could be?

I'm wondering if we need some Edicts back that require Influence upkeep and do something focussed towards other empires? ie. maybe you get an extra Envoy, up your trust cap, increase diplomatic acceptance. Maybe some sinks for Espionage?

EDIT:

- What about removing the ability to trade for Favors, but have an Influence Edict that increases the chance that you'll get a Favor from having an Envoy improving relations? (Plus, remove the cap of 10 favors?).
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Mastikator

Technocrat
16 Badges
Jul 2, 2017
3.372
4.599
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris
Horizontal expansion mana and foreign affairs IMO.

  • starbases on unowned systems
  • Claims
  • Mega structures
  • Integration
  • GC resolutions/veto
  • Pact upkeep
  • Espionage

There should be ways to spread ethos/religion/culture to other empires without going to war/harming diplomacy, which should use influence. But for that to be a thing first culture and religion need to uhh... exist

Moving away from "efficiency" stuff like edicts is a good move IMO.

The choice you make with influence is how you deal with empty space around you and foreign empires (war and peace)
 
  • 7Like
Reactions:

MrGuyPerson

First Lieutenant
74 Badges
Sep 30, 2015
262
839
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
There should be ways to spread ethos/religion/culture to other empires without going to war/harming diplomacy, which should use influence. But for that to be a thing first culture and religion need to uhh... exist
I'm hoping that the next paid update introduces something along the lines of institutions based on ethics: formalized religions, research institutes, military academies, etc. I'm thinking the branch office mechanics could be repurposed here (and hopefully improved). Perhaps the founding empire could develop the headquarters on their own capital and then plop down smaller satellite campuses (or whatever) on non-capital colonies of other empires via a "cultural exchange" agreement at the cost of influence. Cultural exchange agreements might also require a diplomat to maintain, similar to spy networks, to add more tangible value to diplomacy.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:

somerandofromreddit

Private
24 Badges
Jan 21, 2022
10
66
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
Horizontal expansion mana and foreign affairs IMO.

  • starbases on unowned systems
  • Claims
  • Mega structures
  • Integration
  • GC resolutions/veto
  • Pact upkeep
  • Espionage

There should be ways to spread ethos/religion/culture to other empires without going to war/harming diplomacy, which should use influence. But for that to be a thing first culture and religion need to uhh... exist

Moving away from "efficiency" stuff like edicts is a good move IMO.

The choice you make with influence is how you deal with empty space around you and foreign empires (war and peace)
Especially Espionage would be a way better rubber banding mechanic than Sprawl. Let small Empires specialize in Espionage and spend their Influence and energy to steal technology on the large scale and catch up to large Empires, quite quick. It also softnerfs Tech rushing a bit because if you get to far ahead your neighbours just start stealing techs from you for cheaper than you can research them.
 
  • 3Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:

Ikael

Colonel
May 6, 2016
1.136
1.514
Influence being used as currency for far stronger espionage operations than the present ones seems like a very popular idea in these boards, and I generally agree with it.

It would also increase the differences between tall and wide empires, acting as a viable catch-up mechanism for weaker empires, and incidentally, it would make genocidal empires even more terrifying.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Ludaire

Captain
24 Badges
Apr 17, 2021
348
1.049
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Magicka 2
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Magicka
I think influence works really well as the resource driving your core empire expansion. Anything that adds more systems to your empire, more room for pops to live, or more base pop growth costs influence. Including it in diplomacy works well because diplomacy often effectively expands your power base by getting other empires on your side via federations, defensive pacts, commercial pacts, favors, etc.

I think the main thing we're lacking is worthwhile uses for influence that expand your empire in a "tall" direction. Things that makes planets larger and adds base pop growth the same way adding new colonies via system expansion or habitats do. We currently have some of these:
  • Create/restore ecumenopolis
  • Planetary prospecting
  • Habitat expansion
  • Mastery of Nature
  • Ocean world expansion
However, they're a bit of a mixed bag. Creating an ecumenopolis is fantastic but only works on worlds where you don't want basic resources. Also, it doesn't really feel great to me to spam out ecumenopolises to get some extra pop growth; I'd prefer to only make one or two so that they're more special.

Planetary prospecting is random so it often won't give you a worthwhile deposit. It's also locked behind a tradition tree that always feels a bit lackluster.

Habitat expansion is great because they really need the extra districts, but naturally it only affects habitats.

Mastery of Nature and ocean world expansion don't strike me as that useful because you don't tend to totally fill up many planets. I generally prefer to stack the bulk of my population on ring worlds and ecumenopolises with the rest of my colonies having just enough pops to get the full base growth bonus. It's not hard to get to really high planetary capacity to reduce the needed population for maximum growth to 16-20 without needing extra districts. Adding a few extra districts to your one or two ecumenopolises that you actually want to fill just doesn't feel very worth it.

I think strengthening some of these options so they're more appealing influence sinks and adding some new, more accessible options is a great way to go. In particular, having a fairly repeatable way to add additional base growth to planets that costs influence would be great. It means you can add more growth to your empire without needing to add to your number of colonies. Being able to say, double the base growth on a planet for an amount of influence similar in cost to a habitat would add a nice option for people who want to expand upwards rather than outwards. Perhaps it could be 25 influence to add 0.5 extra base growth, which is then increased by the population/capacity adjustment and your pop growth modifiers. It could have a limit of 6 times so you can only double your growth on each colony, and maybe there's an ascension perk that increases this limit.

Planetary ascension could also be an interesting option for this if it cost influence and increased growth instead of only improving the designation (and now reducing sprawl). The increasing cost per ascension levels in your empire would have to be removed so it's more repeatable though, and it seems like they want this mechanic to go in a different direction.
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Love
Reactions:

Tim_Ward

General
26 Badges
Sep 7, 2015
2.392
6.508
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Victoria 2
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
The game needs to see a massive expansion of the non-GC, non-Federation diplomacy mechanics as well as a total rework of the boarderline non-functional war mechanics, all of which are also a good and thematic place for an influence sink.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

Pancakelord

Lord of Pancakes
43 Badges
Apr 7, 2018
3.314
11.915
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • March of the Eagles
  • Darkest Hour
Mostly i think external things require more mechanics, or better hooks in to existing ones; some ideas:
  • Operations
  • Some terraforming operations (barren > non-barren) - mitigated by the world shaper AP.
  • managing subjects
    • vassals / tributaries
      • more control over obligations/taxes
      • overhaul integration of vassals
      • inter-vassal politics/infighting
    • federal members
      • compel them to toe the federal line, increase drift towards leader/"federal enshrined" ethics
  • calling other empires to war, mid-war (a huge influence cost)
  • leaving a war prematurely (if not war -leader) / bilateral peace (again huge inf cost + diplo penalties)
  • breaking a truce early (up to 5 years early) - moderate/scaling influence cost + trust penalties.
  • Leader modification
    • (Re)train your leaders (or manage your heir in an imperium) with influence.
    • De-age them (up to 1-3 times?) with the right techs
    • Reincarnate dead leaders [or your old emperor], for influence:
      • "Engrams" Mechanical path - Basically digital ghosts. They are neural imprints that retain all abilities and skills but cant learn any more and over time the neural engram fades away (like machine leaders, they are immortal but die after a few decades when the imprint destabilises)
      • "Soul-merge" Psi path - they become some kind of psi "imprint"(its basically possession) on to a new leader, radically shortening their life in return for massive skill/trait buffs
      • "Mimic" Biological path - its basically reincarnation ... a super advanced clone, based on the dead leaders DNA, with a natural life span but only half the old skills carry over? (hives would just regurgitate a new drone with like 50% the xp/traits of the dead one)
  • Favours
    • spend influence to rip up a favour with empire x (probably best implemented as its own operation "renege on favour") - also carries bilateral diplo penalties.
  • Claims
    • spend influence (or give favours?) to convince AIs to abandon claims on your territory.
  • Sectors
    • total overhaul.
    • Ideally IMO they'd be something you establish and modify with influence, as semi-autonomous regions (pending more AI economic reworks), but maintain via unity.
  • "Soft power" = Passive ethos/policy spread beyond your borders - devote influence to target nations to get them to adopt your ways of thinking. Overlaps with what operations could do, right now, but if done alongside a political/religious rework, might have enough "substance" to be its own thing.
  • Building vessels bigger than a battleship should cost influence (Titans, Juggs, Colossi, Star killers)
    • Losing them should cost you inf or unity (and war exhaustion tbh), and give the killer inf/unity,
    • provided they receive a healthy stat buff, to make it sufficient risk/reward.
  • 1 influence lost per any assault army you lose (lol) - waived if armies lost in a system occupied by enemy / trying to re-take one of your occupied worlds.
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:

HFY

Field Marshal
28 Badges
May 15, 2016
8.660
20.284
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Ancient Space
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
Subject relations.

Instead of prohibiting me from asking a subject for a commercial pact, let me do it but it costs some Influence.

Instead of making me claim systems and transfer them, let me pay Influence to request that a subject expands into those systems. (And let me do it from the map instead of from a list, I can't remember which random star name means which on a new map.)
 
  • 2
Reactions:

GOLANX

Lt. General
20 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
1.637
1.391
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
Espionage sounds like a good sink but that requires the Nemisis DLC, you shouldn't need to pay up real money for a sink, that isn't to say I don't like the idea as a use but that's going to be a secondary use.

I think any new influence sink needs to be usable by inward perfectionist. Wide empires already got plenty to use it on, and there are some uses for diplomatic politicking. Spending influence on Diplomacy can also easily provide many of the benefits of wide empires anyways. Any larger expansion of abilities will need a whole expansion, and right now we need to have a quick an easy solution.


This is my main idea for a sink, it's in a similar vein to what @Ludaire was talking about, by tagging planetary expansion to the capital and having it cost influence we get a good influence sink and give wide the nerf that sprawl can't do, while substantially buffing Tall builds.
 

Cat_Fuzz

General
May 10, 2016
1.773
2.371
inb4 getting rid of influence and everything that use influence will use unity instead lol
I mean that was my first comment when they announced the unity changes - they are trying differentiate between influence and unity as external and internal management respectively, however if influence isn’t given something to do past the early game, they may as well conflate the two.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

Liggi

Lt. General
80 Badges
Mar 28, 2017
1.273
8.777
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
I was thinking about this a bit more... and maybe being Isolationist naturally WOULD mean you have an excess of Influence. If Influence is used to represent external political clout, and you don't want to utilise that, it makes sense you'd have nothing to spend it on?

That being said, Espionage still feels to me like a logical place to put an Influence sink.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Pancakelord

Lord of Pancakes
43 Badges
Apr 7, 2018
3.314
11.915
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • March of the Eagles
  • Darkest Hour
I was thinking about this a bit more... and maybe being Isolationist naturally WOULD mean you have an excess of Influence. If Influence is used to represent external political clout, and you don't want to utilise that, it makes sense you'd have nothing to spend it on?
Influence today represents
  • your military might
  • GC status (gal empire leader etc)
  • Societal structures (some civics i think)
  • magical base inf generation
And is used for
  • claiming systems / expanding (which makes more sense with power projection now, than in the past)
  • diplo treaties + GC interactions
  • a handful of other disjointed mechanics, like branch office setups)
But isolationism would lead to less diplomatic clout not more. If all of my trade is with you and you tell me "dont kill those people" - i'll listen, as you have the power to tank my economy by suspending trade. If you say "dont kill those people" and we have no diplo ties I'll ignore you if I can out-gun you.

if anything - for diplomacy - I think it should instead use a system akin to Edicts. Whereby your
  1. Diplomatic weight acts as a bank balance, letting you buy things (like commercial pacts, defense pacts) for some amount of diplo weight,
    • This would make isolationism costly for diplomacy builds.
  2. Favours can be used to circumvent this and get things pushed through at a discount, in addition to convincing people to accept things they usually wouldnt (e.g. monthly cost of a commercial pact is reduced by 50% for 10-20 years)
  3. Overflowing your DipWeight means spending another resource, which could be anything - influence, unity, energy, hell something not a resource like "empire-wide stability"(to lift the concept from EU4 and HOI4), or could start applying stacking modifiers like +resource/price inflation (if you've bought in to too many commercial pacts, or been using/abusing the market too much).
Holding claims on owned systems, or vassalisation could add burden to the DipWeight account, too.

The only thing that does not really fit this is one-off payments in influence - notably for
  • habitats, ringworlds, government reform - which could be moved to unity
  • MC branch offices ... turn it in to a running burden on the DipWeight account, rather than upfront cost, and then overflow in to unity?
  • Building outposts in un-owned systems... no easy alternative to influence (and unity doesnt really fit)
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:

GOLANX

Lt. General
20 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
1.637
1.391
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
I was thinking about this a bit more... and maybe being Isolationist naturally WOULD mean you have an excess of Influence. If Influence is used to represent external political clout, and you don't want to utilise that, it makes sense you'd have nothing to spend it on?

That being said, Espionage still feels to me like a logical place to put an Influence sink.
Espionage needs a DLC to be a good sink, gather intel isn't a good place to add one. It can't be the only sink. It might be usable as a sink if Subterfuge tradition could provide some hefty cost reductions, or have some of the cost be born in Unity or energy.

Like pancake said though an isolationist empire isn't very influential, you can be ignored pretty safely, I think a simple solution might be to turn excess influence into Unity, it won't scale but it's something. This is why I think it needs to be used internally like Mastery of Nature or Habitats. It would also likely be used as a major boon to Tall and a cost to wide to help balance that divide. This is especially important as it doesn't seem as though the devs are interested In using sprawl to balance Tall vs Wide.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

HFY

Field Marshal
28 Badges
May 15, 2016
8.660
20.284
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Ancient Space
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
But isolationism would lead to less diplomatic clout not more.

What I'm hearing is that Influence should increase if you have active treaties, not decrease like it does now.

Then being Isolationist would naturally lead to less Influence: no treaties, no boosts.

Maybe you could then spend Influence on everything Favors do now, which is nice if you don't yet have Favors. Accepting a foreign request would pay you the Influence they expended to make the request -- so it's also a way to help your subjects expand & improve, even as you direct them to do smarter things.
 

Mastikator

Technocrat
16 Badges
Jul 2, 2017
3.372
4.599
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Magicka
  • Stellaris
Influence today represents
  • your military might
  • GC status (gal empire leader etc)
  • Societal structures (some civics i think)
  • magical base inf generation
???
Your military might has no influence on Influence, it affects diplomatic weight, it costs no influence to build a mighty fleet or invasion armies. It only costs influence to claim systems but you don't actually need military might to make claims, just to enforce them.

Are we playing the same game?
 

AnemoneMeer

Sergeant
26 Badges
Mar 24, 2018
67
203
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Sign Up
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
???
Your military might has no influence on Influence, it affects diplomatic weight, it costs no influence to build a mighty fleet or invasion armies. It only costs influence to claim systems but you don't actually need military might to make claims, just to enforce them.

Are we playing the same game?

As of 3.3 Beta, influence comes from Force Projection, which is a factor of Military Might.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Nerisande

Second Lieutenant
26 Badges
Sep 23, 2017
159
450
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Influence in beta is even more valuable for non-warmonger buillds.

After making some diplomatic pacts with only one (!) empire I found that my influence is completely ruined and expansion of my Empire is slowed down by 50% until I get diplomacy traditions or lots, lots, lots of very-very-very expensive ships.

Before making even more mana sinks there must be mechanic that works similar to Diplomatic Relations in Europa Universalis. Punyshing ANY diplomacy by draining mana is too harsh. And we have envoys. It will be great if envoys could be used to maintain diplomacy with some target Empires. And when you can't (or just doesn't want to) maintain your diplomatic relations with envoys, you should pay mana.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: