What should be fixed in the faction mechanic ?

[unmerged(362834)]

I think each vassal should only be able to create factions that are consistent with his interest. All vassals should not be able to create the same factions!

- why would a vassal create a faction to support the claims of someone, whereas this vassal isn't even in the de jure regions claimed !

- why would a one-region count create a faction to lower CA, while he's surrounded by big hostile dukes! Shouldn't he support the protection high CA offers?!


Also, when a faction steps up, the liege should be able to buy time before accepting or refusing... the same way when a courtier says he's a better advisor than the present one!


Some new interesting faction ideas would be great :

- Faction to remove someone from the line of succession (disinherinting him). Such factions could target persons with specific traits like Imbecile, blind, different religion... If it succeeds, it could add to that person a trait that says he had been disinherited.

- Faction to press my de jure claims against a neighboring ruler...

- Faction to defend a fellow-believer neighbor against a holly war...


I'm not sure about it, but I feel like new vassals should be able to create their own factions only after a period of time!

As a powerful andalusian Emir, I was able to join every christian kingdom in Spain, make them lower CA, and then recover my independence... without any side effects!

 

[Federalist girl]

Four patriarchs and four kings should not join a faction to help a single county gain independence. That's stupid.

 

[Muskeato]

I'd like there to be an option to pressure people to leave factions, like how you can pressure people to stop plotting.

 

[unmerged(512626)]

Prerequisite to starting a faction, esp. a viable one: a logical reason (e.g. ruler is tyrant), competent diplomacy and lack of traits like drunkard etc. Perhaps a monetary cost and a penalty for losing, though if the other are in place this may be overkill.

 

[brucepm]

I'd like there to be an option to pressure people to leave factions, like how you can pressure people to stop plotting.

Well, there's the Spymaster job that allows you to do this-- set him to plot in a county and there's a chance he'll find a way to exert pressure on the ruler to stop him joining in plots against you for a while, in exchange for a temp -10 opinion. Nothing diplomacy-based, though.

 

[unmerged(159054)]

Well, there's the Spymaster job that allows you to do this-- set him to plot in a county and there's a chance he'll find a way to exert pressure on the ruler to stop him joining in plots against you for a while, in exchange for a temp -10 opinion. Nothing diplomacy-based, though.

Oh I didn't know that, thanks!

 

[unmerged(362834)]

Four patriarchs and four kings should not join a faction to help a single county gain independence. That's stupid.

Prerequisite to starting a faction, esp. a viable one: a logical reason (e.g. ruler is tyrant), competent diplomacy and lack of traits like drunkard etc. Perhaps a monetary cost and a penalty for losing, though if the other are in place this may be overkill.

Yeah! Right now, any vassal can create a faction to gain independence.

If we think about it, it all goes back to strengh!

Any vassal can do whatever he wants, as long as he is strong enough, he is able to gather support from strong vassals, or if his liege is took weak or too busy!

But... isn't it the way it worked back on! My guess is... yes!

Still, a vassal that starts a faction to make someone get a king title while he's not even in its de jure territories... is simply stupid!!! Vassals should be able to do that, only if their holdings belongs de jure to the claimed title!

I agree that there should be some kind of perequesites like the ones you described! However, to me, time condition before being able to create his first faction, is THE inescapable condition!

 

[unmerged(149861)]

Lords should join factions WHEN THE DONT LIKE THEIR LEIGE. The number of dukes I see wanting independance with 60+ relations isn't even funny.

Also, lords should leave factions depending on the relationship with their leige and the other faction members (ie, makes no sense to fight against the liege you love with a dozen dukes you hate). This also allows you to drive divisions between faction members.

 

[Hackworthy]

Four patriarchs and four kings should not join a faction to help a single county gain independence. That's stupid.

This. People who like you a lot shouldn't join factions against you either. I had two Dukes who stood to gain really nothing from the faction and who had a 100 disposition towards me that still joined a faction.

 

[boomerUK]

The only way to fix it is to delete the whole system, I really don't see the point of it, whats the difference between this and plots?

 

[Zireael]

I agree that we need a loyalist faction and a faction to disinherit someone and a faction to press de iure claims. A requirement for starting a faction (a rank or money) would be nice too.

 

[Arizal]

Thinking about that, a loyalist faction wouldn't be useful since those that are out of a faction presumably are with the liege and one could quit this faction in a second. There could be some relationship penalty with the co-plotters to leave a faction (not that harsh, maybe -10 or -20 for some time). However, a raising CA faction made by little count seems perfectly okay with me.

I like the idea of dishinheritng someone, but if religion matters, it could be added as a permanent rule of succession. And I would like overall more interaction between laws and factions. If I dishinherit my daughter, it should be a kind of de facto switch to Agnatic-cognatic primogeniture, for example.

The AI should take the opportunity and relationship with coplotters in matter when choosing if it joins or not. The only hard requirement to join a faction should be the relationship with the liege, but I don't think it should be zero, or it would be too difficult to make a faction. Maybe to create a (negative) faction you should be at zero, but to join it below 50. This is hard to balance, in my opinion.

 

[Arimahn]

If killing/imprisoning/otherwise stopping the head of a faction would mean that they are put into disarray for a few years would help immensely in dealing with them.

As it stands, all those Independence/X for throne of Y/Lower crown authority groups are yet another layer of whack-a-rebel similar to the regular peasant revolts.

 

[donaldduck]

In early game, you don't have much money to improve relations with vassals, so factions are very strong and very dangerous. After 1166, perhaps earlier, you can get good rulers with high diplomacy and have a lot of money to improve relations, then factions are easy to deal with.

Now in 1.07, vassals join the factions only because they don't have good relations with you.That is why factions are complained by many men. I had seen one of my cousin or half-brother made a faction to let another kinsman to become ruler. Even after the cousin himself became my heir, he still support the faction

 

[MartinSWE]

The only way to fix it is to delete the whole system, I really don't see the point of it, whats the difference between this and plots?

The main difference is that with the faction system civil wars can become dangerous and we don´t have to see the silly one-province count declare war of independence agianst the HRE on his own. With the faction system he will gather up more one-province counts, some dukes and then make a push for it. Basically the Faction system is an attempt to make the huge 'stable' reals like the HRE, Fatamids and so on more prone to get in destructive civil wars. I personally like the system though it could use some tweaking.

 

[MartinSWE]

If killing/imprisoning/otherwise stopping the head of a faction would mean that they are put into disarray for a few years would help immensely in dealing with them.

As it stands, all those Independence/X for throne of Y/Lower crown authority groups are yet another layer of whack-a-rebel similar to the regular peasant revolts.

It should be note that you don´t have to 'enforce demands-win' against at least the indepence factions to end the war with a good result. By agreeing to a white peace you will imprison the faction leader, the war will end and you get the +25 relation with every vassal (even those you just defeated) from the 'crush major revolt'-modifier. In addition you can imprison every member of that faction and since they are traitors you will not get the tyrant modifier.

 

[Stianas]

I do not think it makes sense that every dispute ends in a civil war if the liege does not meet the demands. Sometimes maybe there would be an economic penalty or that you really mess up the diplomatic relations (which still possibly could lead to a civil war, but not right away and I guess the AI would try plotting against you as well if they dislike you enough).

 

[Hootieleece]

It should be note that you don´t have to 'enforce demands-win' against at least the indepence factions to end the war with a good result. By agreeing to a white peace you will imprison the faction leader, the war will end and you get the +25 relation with every vassal (even those you just defeated) from the 'crush major revolt'-modifier. In addition you can imprison every member of that faction and since they are traitors you will not get the tyrant modifier.

Exactly that what i've been watching the AI do in an HRE game. The Wars are theoretically tougher, but White peacing actually gives better benefits.

I've seen an AI HRE Emperor with -40 to -80 tyrant malus still have positive relations with their vassals.

 

[Drakken]

Nothing, aside from a few more faction types (like pushing a candidate to become a councillor, or pressure that a councillor be removed, or Imperial Elections" and more "middle ground" pressures rather than black-and-white, "Obey me or I revolt" events.

People confound "opinion" with "self-interest". You may very well think your Liege is a nice bloke, but you still prefer to revolt because it is in your interest, or because you are pressured to do so, or because you are a backstabbing dumbass. It's nothing personal, all about business.

I can manage my factions fine, even as France, because I don't go into useless wars in which my troops get wiped out. I waited until England was crippled before going to war for Normandy, and I seek allies that will help my self-interest. As long as you have the military upper hand people will think twice before revolting against you.

 

[Captain Frye]

Can pls someone give me a hint, how to disable it? Which files do I have to delete? I love this game, but this faction system really breaks everything.