What Results Are You Getting by Setting the AI to Ahistorical Paths?

[noobermenschen]

I am especially interested in what happens when you set UK, Commonwealth, and/or Mexico down the Fascist road as several of those countries are supposed to try on the USA for size eventually. I would like to try out a 'Murrica -vs- overwhelmingly fascist ROTW fight once I learn how things work in MtG, and am curious how soon I can expect some rowdiness on my borders.

 

[TheNexxus]

Hilarity ensues...

 

[noobermenschen]

Hilarity ensues...

You can do better than that.

 

[TheNexxus]

Ok, one game I played I opted for a non-aggressive posture with Germany and when the Soviets attacked me in 1941, Britain, France and the US came to my aid and aligned with Germany against Russia. We defeated Russia. The US and Japan fought it out. Historical setting.

Another game I played as Russia and the Allies weren’t happy with my aggressiveness in the Baltics, so they declared war on me. Hungary and Romania allied with me, Yugoslavia joined the Allies and then Hungary, Romania and Germany declared war on the Allies. This lasted until 1941 when Germany also declared war on Russia, turning this into an absolutely surreal experience. Japan stayed neutral and didn’t enter the war. This was also with a historical setting, go figure.

A game I played last night saw Sweden declare war on Germany after I attacked Denmark, so I used the opportunity to forego a naval invasion of Norway and swing through Sweden to clear it out instead (thanks for the assist Sweden!) Also historical setting.

 

[noobermenschen]

Ok, one game I played I opted for a non-aggressive posture with Germany and when the Soviets attacked me in 1941, Britain, France and the US came to my aid and aligned with Germany against Russia. We defeated Russia. The US and Japan fought it out. Historical setting.

Another game I played as Russia and the Allies weren’t happy with my aggressiveness in the Baltics, so they declared war on me. Hungary and Romania allied with me, Yugoslavia joined the Allies and then Hungary, Romania and Germany declared war on the Allies. This lasted until 1941 when Germany also declared war on Russia, turning this into an absolutely surreal experience. Japan stayed neutral and didn’t enter the war. This was also with a historical setting, go figure.

A game I played last night saw Sweden declare war on Germany after I attacked Denmark, so I used the opportunity to forego a naval invasion of Norway and swing through Sweden to clear it out instead (thanks for the assist Sweden!) Also historical setting.

Okay it sounds like you are taking the country you play down a different road from history, which is common. Or you had a random AI country go off the rails.

What I am asking is if anyone is using the new game setting where you can direct AI countries to follow certain paths. And if so what results are you getting - for instance does the Commonwealth break up if everyone is going Fascist, do Mexico and Canada really team up to attack the USA and if so when etc.

 

[cnwi]

for instance does the Commonwealth break up

The Commonwealth alternative paths don't work, as the countries don't prioritise their alternative path. So you'll get something like fascist Canada in the Allies at war with the Axis. And once they're in a war, they're locked in for good.
Additionally many Commonwealth countries need 300 political power to become free. But the AI wasn't programmed to save that, so they'll never have the political power, until they have bought everything else around '45.

You may get the Commonwealth to split by using UK's alternative paths though, but it breaks most of their trees.

 

[halvorni]

I'm playing USA ahistorically, currently at the beginning of 1941.

I had started my build-up in the Pacific to handle the Japanese, when suddenly they had a civil war. Guess what? The democrats won, and all was peace & love in Asia.

Meanwhile, the King had assumed power in the UK, and when Hitler attacked Poland and France the UK joined, on Germany's side! They won, and now Germany controls most of Europe and Great Britain most of Africa and the Middle East (as well as Ireland...).

I guess we'll eventually have to invade Europe, if I can swing the Senate and the House to my side, but we have a more pressing concern - the Canadians are turning fascist, and the US Army is crap, since I've concentrated most of my effort on the USN and USAAF. Oh, well.

 

[noobermenschen]

I'm playing USA ahistorically, currently at the beginning of 1941.

I had started my build-up in the Pacific to handle the Japanese, when suddenly they had a civil war. Guess what? The democrats won, and all was peace & love in Asia.

Meanwhile, the King had assumed power in the UK, and when Hitler attacked Poland and France the UK joined, on Germany's side! They won, and now Germany controls most of Europe and Great Britain most of Africa and the Middle East (as well as Ireland...).

I guess we'll eventually have to invade Europe, if I can swing the Senate and the House to my side, but we have a more pressing concern - the Canadians are turning fascist, and the US Army is crap, since I've concentrated most of my effort on the USN and USAAF. Oh, well.

Did you set the game to random focuses or selectively choose paths for certain countries? Five years is a long time for someone to go Fascist, even Canada.

 

[cnwi]

Five years is a long time for someone to go Fascist, even Canada.

Read my post above.
Canada requires 300PP to follow this path, which it can't get because the AI immediately spends PP to buy decisions, advisors, law changes, ... Only after everything else is bought will Canada follow that path.

 

[noobermenschen]

Read my post above.
Canada requires 300PP to follow this path, which it can't get because the AI immediately spends PP to buy decisions, advisors, law changes, ... Only after everything else is bought will Canada follow that path.

Bummer.

 

[halvorni]

Did you set the game to random focuses or selectively choose paths for certain countries? Five years is a long time for someone to go Fascist, even Canada.

I just set it to ahistorical, no specific selections. And I was wrong, it was early 1940, not 1941. And the Canadians had a fascist majority, they hadn't really formed a fascist government yet.

Anyhow, I played some more, and chose to join the Commonwealth, to avert the risk of a Canadian invasion (I was still a Disarmed Nation with an army that still sucked). Great Britain was out, having turned monarchist, but they still had Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. I assumed leadership of the Commonwealth, but at that time (or possibly earlier) something strange happened - Australia and NZ were kicked out for not being fascist enough. Now Canada and SA both had fascist majorities (but not fascist governments) whereas USA was 100% democratic.

SA declared war on Great Britain, we supported, and so the USA and friends were in a war against Great Britain and Germany, with the Soviet Union and Japan neutral. Great! Currently we have the Royal Navy and the Kriegsmarine fighting the US Navy all along the East Coast, but we'll see what emerges from that.

 

[xsmilingbanditx]

We did our first MP Axis CoOp (Germany and Jaoan) with MtG. France went for the Little Entente while GB got straight into Nationalism.
While Germany took whatever she could early, I was busy in China until 1942 because the Chinese United Front did not form. Meantime in Canada, Fascist uprisings began, Australia et al soon followed. Italy joined Britain and they thought attacking the Little Entente (including now Denmark, Sweden and Norway) was a good Idea. Well, it was. In the other part of Europe, USSR thought going for Germany was the right thing to do. After over a year of slugfesting, Japanese and German Frontlines met North of Turkey and Russia was out of the way. While Mexico went in a try-hard rampage in Central America, the USA finally had it and formed the American Entente to screw over Mexico. GB (or "The Allies") realized that going for the USA while still fighting in India is cool.
Fast forward to 1944...everybody's mother and dog are on "scraping the barrel" and thus, Germany and Japan gave it a go. Germany now owns nearly all of Mainland europe while Japan covers everything from close to Archangalesk to Melbourne. Fighting in the USA still goes on and Britain is supposed to become a meatgrinder. Oh yes, Turkey joined when we capitulated Italy and Spain because we had no troops anywhere. Japan now invading Turkey.

Funny enough, Japan still is only third with industry. Germany now got about 1200, Britain 580 and Japan is close behind with 570...The year is 1948, the World gone mad and more than 80 Million dead...

 

[noobermenschen]

Okay so I have started sort of an observer game as Cuba, and set the following nations to separate paths:

France - Democratic alternate (Little Entente)

Mexico, Britain, Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand - Fascist.

I also buffed Germany, Italy, Japan and UK up one notch. I have played until mid-1939 so far with the following results:

- Mexico and UK go Fascist very quickly, the bad guys being in power in mid-late 1937. In 1939 Mexico is starting her March South focuses so is headed towards war in the Americas. [EDIT] Completely forgot, Mexico joined the Axis in early 1939 so any American war will involve Germany.

- Once UK organized the Blackshirts everyone in the Commonwealth except Malaya declared independence. Fascist UK apparently has ways of messing with them but so far has only Allied with Italy and conquered Ireland.

- Canada IS taking a long time to go Fascist, as of 1939 has just started to build support. Australia and New Zealand have not started going fascist at all yet. India split off Pakistan, which spun off Bangladesh, with lots of fighting and White peaces.

- Germany went to war with the Little Entente over Czechoslovakia and has capitulated everyone except France, which won't last much longer. Germany did take Danzig or War and Bypass the Maginot a couple of focuses earlier than usual.

- China is doing well in spite of Japan's buff and volunteers from UK, though Japan is gaining momentum now. Nationalists won SCW. No other rowdiness for the moment.

 

[tanklizard]

I’ve been playing around with the custom rules for AI behavior since Man the Guns came out and here’s some of what I’ve found:

Playing as the US I put Mexico on the Fascist Dictatorship path. They turned fascist and eventually retook their oilfields from US and UK control. I was given the choice of ignoring it, embargoing them, or going to war. I didn’t want the stability loss from starting an offensive war so embargoed them figuring they’d eventually come after me. Sure enough Mexico started generating a war goal against me but they wised up and cancelled it. They then went south and attacked Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador but I couldn’t jump in to enforce independence guarantees on those nations. Turns out I was still guaranteeing Mexico and there’s an independence guarantee loophole whereby if you are guaranteeing both the attacker and the defender in a war you can’t intervene.

I ended up taking the "Hemisphere Defense" focus which allowed me to form a faction with the all democratic countries in the New World that weren’t already in a faction, which let me enter the war. Mexico, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, and Peru joined the Axis and WW2 started in the New World. The poor Haitians got overrun by the Dominicans almost instantly. Germany had already sent volunteers to Mexico to fight me but when they entered the war and tried to send more troops my subs littered the Caribbean with their convoys. I eventually beat down Mexico and got into a huge “out of supply” slogfest defending Columbia from Venezuela and Peru. I got bored and quit (which I admit happens far too often.)


Playing as the US again I sent Mexico down the Theocratic Order path and it eventually turned Mexico fascist as well. Early on, I want to say 1937 or 1938, a fascist Mexican Junta started a civil war. Mexico eventually beat them down and I quit paying attention to them for a while. When I glanced back at Mexico it had morphed into Catholic Mexico and was fascist. Remembering the last time I cancelled their independence guarantee. They eventually formed a faction with El Salvador, Peru, the Dominican Republic, and Venezuela. This time when Mexico went after Guatemala I was able to jump in and stomp all 5 fascist countries flat. Actually I had only beaten the Dominican Republic and Mexico and was on my way to beating Venezuela when the war ended. I was able to annex all 5 countries even though I hadn’t set foot in Venezuela or Peru.


If as the US you take the “Reaffirm Monroe Doctrine” focus, you gain access to intervention decisions for the Americas similar to the “Limited Intervention” tree. With this focus if the UK and/or France go communist or fascist you get a decision to demand they liberate their colonies in the Americas. The decision costs 50 PP and requires 25% war support as well as congressional support. If they defy your demand you can declare war. Another set of decisions you get is the ability to intervene in any war in the Americas, including civil wars, even after the war is over. These decisions cost 50 PP and require 20% war support as well as congressional support. One experiment I ran was I started a US game and began diplomatically starting a civil war in Venezuela while working towards the “Reaffirm Monroe Doctrine” focus. When the civil war kicked off I had gained the focus and had the intervention decision but didn’t have the necessary war support to use it. Fascist Venezuela defeated the democratic rebels and even though the war was over I still had decision to declare war on Venezuela available. The decision button mentions the decision is available for 35 days but I still had it long after 35 days after the war had ended.

 

[Elektrycerz]

If you want total randomness, load up Expert AI 4.0, put every country on random focuses, decolonize everything, make minors choose random ideology (ExAI) and set AI war aggressiveness to high. I'm wathing an AI game right now and the world already looks much different and it's only 1940. Expert AI makes the ahistorical playthroughs much more interesting because AI actually justifies war goals outside of focuses, so you'll get many wars between minors, kind of like in the Kaiserreich mod for example.

 

[noobermenschen]

I’ve been playing around with the custom rules for AI behavior since Man the Guns came out and here’s some of what I’ve found:

Playing as the US I put Mexico on the Fascist Dictatorship path. They turned fascist and eventually retook their oilfields from US and UK control. I was given the choice of ignoring it, embargoing them, or going to war. I didn’t want the stability loss from starting an offensive war so embargoed them figuring they’d eventually come after me. Sure enough Mexico started generating a war goal against me but they wised up and cancelled it. They then went south and attacked Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador but I couldn’t jump in to enforce independence guarantees on those nations. Turns out I was still guaranteeing Mexico and there’s an independence guarantee loophole whereby if you are guaranteeing both the attacker and the defender in a war you can’t intervene.

I ended up taking the "Hemisphere Defense" focus which allowed me to form a faction with the all democratic countries in the New World that weren’t already in a faction, which let me enter the war. Mexico, Venezuela, the Dominican Republic, and Peru joined the Axis and WW2 started in the New World. The poor Haitians got overrun by the Dominicans almost instantly. Germany had already sent volunteers to Mexico to fight me but when they entered the war and tried to send more troops my subs littered the Caribbean with their convoys. I eventually beat down Mexico and got into a huge “out of supply” slogfest defending Columbia from Venezuela and Peru. I got bored and quit (which I admit happens far too often.)


Playing as the US again I sent Mexico down the Theocratic Order path and it eventually turned Mexico fascist as well. Early on, I want to say 1937 or 1938, a fascist Mexican Junta started a civil war. Mexico eventually beat them down and I quit paying attention to them for a while. When I glanced back at Mexico it had morphed into Catholic Mexico and was fascist. Remembering the last time I cancelled their independence guarantee. They eventually formed a faction with El Salvador, Peru, the Dominican Republic, and Venezuela. This time when Mexico went after Guatemala I was able to jump in and stomp all 5 fascist countries flat. Actually I had only beaten the Dominican Republic and Mexico and was on my way to beating Venezuela when the war ended. I was able to annex all 5 countries even though I hadn’t set foot in Venezuela or Peru.


If as the US you take the “Reaffirm Monroe Doctrine” focus, you gain access to intervention decisions for the Americas similar to the “Limited Intervention” tree. With this focus if the UK and/or France go communist or fascist you get a decision to demand they liberate their colonies in the Americas. The decision costs 50 PP and requires 25% war support as well as congressional support. If they defy your demand you can declare war. Another set of decisions you get is the ability to intervene in any war in the Americas, including civil wars, even after the war is over. These decisions cost 50 PP and require 20% war support as well as congressional support. One experiment I ran was I started a US game and began diplomatically starting a civil war in Venezuela while working towards the “Reaffirm Monroe Doctrine” focus. When the civil war kicked off I had gained the focus and had the intervention decision but didn’t have the necessary war support to use it. Fascist Venezuela defeated the democratic rebels and even though the war was over I still had decision to declare war on Venezuela available. The decision button mentions the decision is available for 35 days but I still had it long after 35 days after the war had ended.

That is interesting! Thank you for the tip on guarantees.

If you want total randomness, load up Expert AI 4.0, put every country on random focuses, decolonize everything, make minors choose random ideology (ExAI) and set AI war aggressiveness to high. I'm wathing an AI game right now and the world already looks much different and it's only 1940. Expert AI makes the ahistorical playthroughs much more interesting because AI actually justifies war goals outside of focuses, so you'll get many wars between minors, kind of like in the Kaiserreich mod for example.

Hearts of Iron 4: The Purge

I am curious how my dark world scenario will play out (working late the next couple of days so won't get to play much), with so many brutish louts or loutish brutes in charge. I suspect Japan will DoW Fascist UK over Malaya, and UK could well DoW an Axis former Commonwealth country to bring them back to the fold. For a future USA campaign I am shooting for a somewhat unified Fascist enemy rather than wading into several lout -vs- brute wars.

I am wondering if directing UK to the "God Save the King" path will result in a UK-Germany Alliance, and leaving the Commonwealth alone may keep all those countries together in one faction. At the same time directing Japan to support the Kodoha will send them against the USSR instead of the Southern Resources area - which incidentally may give me a useful ally in the Dutch East Indies and save USA from having to go full autarky researching and building all those synthetic plants. [EDIT] (Thinking about it the DEI will be surrounded by Axis Commonwealth nations so their chances of survival are not good. Looks like I'll need those synth refineries after all)

 

[DuoSunt]

They simply don't work.

I recently played a Japan game where I set both Australia and NZ to ally with Japan. They both made it to the first fascist decision, but then went to other focuses, remained in the allies, and were thus dragged into the war in 39.

As others in the thread have mentioned, Canada does not make it to fascist before sep 39 and thus stays with the allies.

I find it hard to believe none of these paths were tested, but there it is.

Additionally, if you, the player, attempt to take alternate history paths, the game disallows it. For example, I just exited a game as Sweden where I joined Finland in the winter war. I did not have military access to Finland after joining the war, and Finland promptly white peaced, leaving me at war with the Soviets.

maybe in another year or so this expansion will be playable.

 

[tanklizard]

I’m currently playing with a scenario similar to what you, noobermenschen, mentioned. I’m playing as the US and have set every country I can towards fascist. My basic strategy is to “turtle up” in the lower 48 states and wait for someone to come after me. Currently the game is at January 1st, 1940.
Britain and France have gone fascist and joined the Germany and Italy in the Axis. All of Britain’s puppets are independent, including Malaysia, but they did not form a faction. Currently the Axis is fighting (stomping) the European Defense League; Luxemburg, Belgium, Poland, Greece, Romania, and Ireland. Only Belgium and Romania are left so it’s only a matter of time.

In Asia Japan has been conquering the Chinas and only Communist China is left. In the Americas, Mexico went fascist and formed the Synarchist Pact with El Salvador, Peru, and the Dominican Republic.

I’ve also set various countries on the monarchy path and here some of what I’ve found:

When the UK goes monarchy there’s a short transition period from the democratic government to the monarchy. During this time all the UK’s puppets except Malaysia will go independent. Canada, South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand will form the Commonwealth. India and Pakistan will end up partitioned, India will declare war on Pakistan, they’ll sign a white peace, and then Pakistan will declare on Bangladesh. Eventually there will be a monarchist civil war in one of the Commonwealth countries and Monarchist Britain will join the war on the rebel’s side.

If you set Germany to restore the Kaiser and Hungary to reform the Austro-Hungarian Empire both countries will form the Central Powers. If you set Japan neutral (monarchy) they will, ignore China and eventually attack Russia. If the Central Powers have formed they’ll join.

 

[mackau]

I had one game as France where everyone in europe went Fascist.

I lasted about 4 years before collapsing, tagged to the US to reconquer to entire world. Even had to take out Brazil. Ended up taking several huge d-day landings before i finally got a foothold and recaptured Europe.

 

[Elite1138]

The most interesting game I have had so far is my current one. Playing as the USA I set all focuses to random. Germany opposed Hitler and restored the Kaiserreich. I don't really remember exactly what went on in the UK but Edward didn't abdicate and the UK had the fallen government for a while before going monarchist. Somewhere along the way India went independent and Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa formed their own faction, the Commonwealth of Nations. Hungary reformed Austria-Hungary with Austria and Czechoslovakia. Poland formed their faction with the Baltic countries. Japan went non-aligned and restored the Shogunate. Mexico went communist. France also went communist. Germany assassinated Mussolini and Italy went monarchist.

Mexico declared war on me (USA) and during my invasion a Mexican civil war broke out between the Communists and the Fascists. The Communists were quickly defeated and Fascist Mexico was left. After a few months Mexico declared war again trying to seize the Panama Canal. Once again I crushed them and set up Democratic Mexico as a supervised state.

The Soviet Union declared war on Poland and Germany joined Międzymorze. France joined the Comintern. Japan eventually declared war on the Soviet Union and also joined Międzymorze. At some point the UK joined the faction of its former dominions in the Commonwealth faction. Germany declared war on the UK. Japan and Poland joined Germany in fighting the Commonwealth. France held out for a while but eventually fell along with Belgium and Luxembourg. The Soviet Union capitulated not long after. Poland annexed the Soviet Union and Germany set up monarchist France as a puppet. Africa was overrun by Germany.

I had been biding my time waiting to see which faction I should fight. My original intent was to fight the isolated UK. The UK had been taking some concerning focuses regarding retaking a certain former colony so I was gearing up for that. But the the UK never ended up doing anything, they joined the Commonwealth and got into a war with Germany. I decided that Germany/Poland/Japan were going to be the bigger threat. Austria-Hungary and Italy joined the Commonwealth and were both quickly crushed by Germany. I was unable to secure a decent foothold in Europe so I turned my attention to the Pacific where I could do some damage with my Navy while I built up my army. After a few years of fighting I decimated Japan's navy and retook the pacific islands. For most of the game China had stayed out of the war and was focusing on dealing with the warlords. China eventually joined the Commonwealth and put up a decent fight before capitulating. With all of the pacific islands captured I nuked Japan forcing them to capitulate. The remainder of Japan's army still fights on from China however.

This is as far as i've gotten in this game. I intend to still clean up Europe and end the war. It is going to be tough though. I am not in a faction and I can't join the Commonwealth because the UK is non-aligned so I don't have access to any airbases in Europe except for ones I manage to capture. Landings in Europe have gone poorly. Any invasion force just gets swarmed by hundreds of enemy divisions and overwhelmed by enemy air power.

Most other games I have tried setting ahistorical focuses on usually results in the AI never really dedicating to that path and rarely switching ideology. It essentially just removes nations from the game instead of making them do anything really interesting.