WHAT Political Considerations?

[Aszhalinde]

Trying to figure out why the "Political Considerations" modifier often appears to be baffling. I love the new transparency behind AI decisions and all, but it doesn't really count if you just now lump everything into a "political considerations" modifier. Not really helpful.

I'm playing a game as Japan and I just decided to back Poland in a crisis. UK is #1, Russia is #7, and I'm #5. UK's political considerations modifier towards Russia is +102, which automatically rules out them ever joining my side. Why is it that high and what's causing it? Russia and UK are at +3 relations, while me and UK are at +200. Russia and the UK have never been allies. Russia is an absolute monarchy whereas the UK is HM's Government. My infamy is at 4.02, their infamy is both at 0. I've never been to war with the UK.

What possible reason could they have for being that in love with Russia against Poland?

 

[unmerged(144721)]

I'm joining this question.

 

[chrism2012]

...maybe because you are the player, Russia is AI...


That's the cruelty about black boxes, you'll never know what's truly inside it but still you're going to smash your head for finding out.

Perhaps podcat will give an answer?

 

[Kimberly]

I think "political considerations" exist to keep a kind of balance. I notice that whenever too many countries join one side, the rest get a big "political considerations" penalty and tend to go to the other side of the crisis, even if they'd been leaning one way before. Hence why I always wait until the important countries have picked a side; if I join whoever seems likely to win, political considerations make everyone change their mind.

 

[NapoleonI]

A strong Russia is a threat to most everyone more than it is to the UK. So the UK does not want Russia to fall apart.

Prussia loves to back the Ottomans. France and UK often back Russia. It makes sense to me. Also remember that you get a -25 relations penalty for choosing the other side. I guess that matters to the AI. UK cares more about its relations to Russia than it does to Japan. I guess the UK also fears a war against Russia more than a war against Japan, in the case that the crisis is not resolved.

Poland is a really hard country to liberate through a crisis, since they have cores on Germany, Austria, Russia and Krakow. Although that should not influence the UK in this case.

 

[EUnderhill]

Hopefully there is a random element contained within "political considerations".

 

[Patter Song]

Political considerations can include all sorts of things. Britain might have a vested interest in a strong Russia as a block against Germany or Austria, Britain might fear that the prestige you'll get from championing a successful crisis might push you into being a threat for their top slot, one of Britain's allies might be backing Russia and Britain might prefer staying close to said ally over you, or someone Britain absolutely detests (France?) might be backing you and Britain wants to get on the opposite side of them in the Crisis war.

EDIT: You'll often see this with NGF. If NGF is the patron of some cause in a crisis war, no matter what the Crisis actually is, 9 times out of 10 France, Austria, and Russia will race to back whatever the other side is because they all have a vested interest in beating the crap out of the NGF.

 

[Aszhalinde]

A strong Russia is a threat to most everyone more than it is to the UK. So the UK does not want Russia to fall apart.

Prussia loves to back the Ottomans. France and UK often back Russia. It makes sense to me. Also remember that you get a -25 relations penalty for choosing the other side. I guess that matters to the AI. UK cares more about its relations to Russia than it does to Japan. I guess the UK also fears a war against Russia more than a war against Japan, in the case that the crisis is not resolved.

Poland is a really hard country to liberate through a crisis, since they have cores on Germany, Austria, Russia and Krakow. Although that should not influence the UK in this case.

Political considerations can include all sorts of things. Britain might have a vested interest in a strong Russia as a block against Germany or Austria, Britain might fear that the prestige you'll get from championing a successful crisis might push you into being a threat for their top slot, one of Britain's allies might be backing Russia and Britain might prefer staying close to said ally over you, or someone Britain absolutely detests (France?) might be backing you and Britain wants to get on the opposite side of them in the Crisis war.

EDIT: You'll often see this with NGF. If NGF is the patron of some cause in a crisis war, no matter what the Crisis actually is, 9 times out of 10 France, Austria, and Russia will race to back whatever the other side is because they all have a vested interest in beating the crap out of the NGF.

All this stuff is all well and good, but do you guys have evidence that the game is actually programmed this way, or are you just making stuff up?

It bears being said that in the particular crisis outlined above, nobody has joined a side yet. Everybody is actually leaning towards joining me EXCEPT UK, but as soon as the UK joins Russia, everybody leans toward joining Russia. I can understand that, nobody really wants to piss off the UK at this point in the game. I'm just having trouble figuring out why the UK cares about Russia when there are no other mitigating factors (that I can see).

 

[Ricox]

EDIT: You'll often see this with NGF. If NGF is the patron of some cause in a crisis war, no matter what the Crisis actually is, 9 times out of 10 France, Austria, and Russia will race to back whatever the other side is because they all have a vested interest in beating the crap out of the NGF.

Yeah, this one. Don't expect to be loved by your 3 big neighbours as Germany or NGF. Political considerations also include some lines in the save game, I believe, like the "anatagonize =", "befriend =" etc. ones, plus I believe that historical rivalry is included. I've noticed UK gets a high negative political considerations when it comes to France and vice versa, which makes historical sense.

 

[Aszhalinde]

A strong Russia is a threat to most everyone more than it is to the UK. So the UK does not want Russia to fall apart.

Also, this argument doesn't even make sense. A strong ANYONE is more of a threat against ANYONE that it is to the UK, excepting the USA. France and Russia are the only two countries who could realistically threaten Britain itself in this time period IRL and in game (~1865), so unless Britain and Russia are great pals (which they aren't) UK shouldn't mind taking Russia down a notch.

 

[masteriw]

The AI has a hard time loving the player in crises, they seem to mostly flock whatever side opposes you as soon as you pick a side, so I tend to wait until most relevant GPs have made their decision.

Also, I suspect GPs often support each other out of fear, like if they just wanted the crisis to end in a white peace.

 

[Beagá]

Also, this argument doesn't even make sense. A strong ANYONE is more of a threat against ANYONE that it is to the UK, excepting the USA. France and Russia are the only two countries who could realistically threaten Britain itself in this time period IRL and in game (~1865), so unless Britain and Russia are great pals (which they aren't) UK shouldn't mind taking Russia down a notch.

It all makes zero sense often (made a thread about similar situation with other country) and yes the devs should explain better how it works. I´m seriously suspecting that influence plays a part in it, if a GP is friendly towards a nation they will align toward that nation in crisis (or at least some people think it works that way). It does need more evidence, however, so people should check this i ntheir games and give feedback.

 

[blaidd]

There is a patch note in the new beta patch:

- Fix for bad math in determining crisis backers (Russia backing Ottomans!)

So if you are playing the 3.01 version some of these strange decisions may very well be a bug.

 

[Aszhalinde]

I'm playing with the beta patch. As for Russia not backing Ottomans, the past three games I've played with the beta patch Russia has done nothing BUT back the Ottomans, so maybe the math is still off

 

[blaidd]

Are you allied with the UK in your scenario? Otherwise it kind of makes sense.

If I was running the British Empire and a hugely powerful industrialized Japanese Empire sprang up in Asia, that would certainly concern me. Russia is #7, pretty weak, but they tend to have a strong military score and I imagine they are the only other Great Power near you.

Then you come along rattling your katana over Poland, of all places, saying that Russia should let it go? What interest does Japan have in a free Poland? Only to weaken Russia.

If Japan eats a chunk of Russia or knocks them down from GP status who is left in Asia? You and Great Britain.

They know you're coming for their top spot. Probably afraid you'll take some of their colonies. They think that them and the Russians can beat you now and stop your expansion.

What possible reason would they have to side with you?

 

[Wizzington]

All this stuff is all well and good, but do you guys have evidence that the game is actually programmed this way, or are you just making stuff up?

It is programmed this way.

 

[Chamboozer]

If I was running the British Empire and a hugely powerful industrialized Japanese Empire sprang up in Asia, that would certainly concern me. Russia is #7, pretty weak, but they tend to have a strong military score and I imagine they are the only other Great Power near you.

Presented with that very situation in real life, Britain did choose to ally with Japan. Why support Russia and make an enemy out of the only state that really had the potential to threaten them at sea?

And, indeed, Russia was seen as an enemy to the British because of their potential to strike south through Iran or Afghanistan against India.

 

[blaidd]

Presented with that very situation in real life, Britain did choose to ally with Japan.

There were different 'political considerations' involved based on events in the OP's game which unfolded differently than in real life. I don't know what 'rank' Russia would have been considered at the onset of the Russo-Japanese War, but given their clout at the time probably higher than #7. And most of Europe didn't yet consider the Japanese Empire a credible threat to the Great Powers. So the British choosing to side with Japan in that scenario is an example of seizing an opportunity to weaken the larger threat. Pretty much exactly what they did in the game, except in reverse.

 

[Aszhalinde]

It is programmed this way.

Is there no way to get more detail about what "political considerations" are actually referring to specifically? Like "+20: Wants to Befriend Russia" or something

Further details about the crisis since someone mentioned UK's allies: UK was at that time allied with NGF. NGF had not chosen a side yet but they would have followed whatever UK decided (I think). So there was no conflict with an ally should the UK back either side. UK was always the first to pick a side.

 

[Aszhalinde]

Are you allied with the UK in your scenario? Otherwise it kind of makes sense.

If I was running the British Empire and a hugely powerful industrialized Japanese Empire sprang up in Asia, that would certainly concern me. Russia is #7, pretty weak, but they tend to have a strong military score and I imagine they are the only other Great Power near you.

Then you come along rattling your katana over Poland, of all places, saying that Russia should let it go? What interest does Japan have in a free Poland? Only to weaken Russia.

If Japan eats a chunk of Russia or knocks them down from GP status who is left in Asia? You and Great Britain.

They know you're coming for their top spot. Probably afraid you'll take some of their colonies. They think that them and the Russians can beat you now and stop your expansion.

What possible reason would they have to side with you?

They have no reason to love me, other than +200 relations. They have no reason to love Russia either though.