What on earth are irenic monarchies, democracies, protectorates?

[Seriphyn]

Each of the advanced government types are (from my understanding) intended to represent a more science fiction, far future, and "advanced" (well, it's the name) version of the base type. The initial governments represent a more contemporary and/or near future constitutional form.

But what on earth are these irenic governments? We know irenic means peaceful, derived from some Christian school of thought. I suppose the best question to ask is what polities from other sci-fi universes are these based on, given that all the government forms are meant to encompass as much sci-fi political systems as possible.

 

[ramius3443]

The way I thought of it was the difference between an absolutist and feudal monarchy: same general model, but more refined and "pure" in form (less inefficiencies, many of the kinks ironed out by this point ect). I guess Irene could indicate there are slightly less internal divisions or more clear purpose

 

[BogMod]

Well don't they just give an enhanced bonus to what your normal government type gives?

 

[Yenzen]

It's the reconciliation part of the definition that's most important. Irenicism refers to various sects of Christianity trying to peacefully unify.

Your head guy is a "censor", someone who decides what parts to cut out. Likely, in a multi species empires, it's an attempt at making some sort of unified church, even integrating parts of other species' spiritualism and philosophy (which makes a powerful negative ethos divergence make sense).

 

[ramius3443]

But Censor is also a roman administrative title that doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with censorship

 

[James_K]

But what on earth are these irenic governments?

They're like 10,000 spoons, when you just need a government.

 

[Yenzen]

But Censor is also a roman administrative title that doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with censorship

True, but coupled with the reference to irenicism...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenicism

 

[An Elder Thing]

True, but coupled with the reference to irenicism...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irenicism

I am pretty sure it refers to modern irenicism, and not Christian irenicism. Even its relation to the pacifist governments.

 

[Yenzen]

I am pretty sure it refers to modern irenicism, and not Christian irenicism. Even its relation to the pacifist governments.

What I mean is this:

As the theocratic democracy expands towards the stars (let's say that theocratic means that only priests can be elected) the elected body will start to face difficulty maintaining the status quo.

People in the frontiers will start to question the validity of the rather strongly codified religion, and any integrated aliens will find it hard to relate to dogma foreign to their home world and culture. This is reflected in that the negative ethos drift will start to become insufficient in the mid game.

The Irenic solution is to go wide. The religion becomes more about philosophy. Aspects of alien and frontier morals and philosophy are integrated into the state religion as long as they're useful. Even materialists may be swayed (diverge towards spiritualism), if their existing moral code isn't against the state religion.

 

[Vasious]

But Censor is also a roman administrative title that doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with censorship

The Censor ensured the keeping of the public morals.
the Description of the Pacifist Governments we know so far

Peaceful Bureaucracy
"This government is a pacifist form of oligarchy, where a complicated system of bureaucracy governs all aspects of society to ensure the safety of the citizenry."

With a Coordinator

And

Moral Democracy
"This government is a pacifistic form of democracy, firmly guided by moralist principles and non-violence"


Sounds like the censor could have the role of maintaining and guiding the "moralist principles of non-violence to ensure the safety of the citizenry"

 

[Yenzen]

The Censor ensured the keeping of the public morals.
the Description of the Pacifist Governments we know so far

Peaceful Bureaucracy
"This government is a pacifist form of oligarchy, where a complicated system of bureaucracy governs all aspects of society to ensure the safety of the citizenry."

With a Coordinator

And

Moral Democracy
"This government is a pacifistic form of democracy, firmly guided by moralist principles and non-violence"


Sounds like the censor could have the role of maintaining and guiding the "moralist principles of non-violence to ensure the safety of the citizenry"

The Irenic democracy is the advanced theocratic democracy, as I understand it, but the moral democracy. Am I mistaken?

Edit: I am. I was sure I read it was the advanced theocratic democracy at some point. Disregard earlier posts.

 

[Vasious]

The Irenic democracy is the advanced theocratic democracy, as I understand it, but the moral democracy. Am I mistaken?

The irenic Governments are listed as Advanced forms of the Pacifist Government forms, not the Spiritualists, on the wiki link provided above

 

[Yenzen]

The irenic Governments are listed as Advanced forms of the Pacifist Government forms, not the Spiritualists, on the wiki link provided above

Yeah, I messed up. Not sure if it was said otherwise at some point of if I thought it up by myself.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

What @Yenzen says makes a lot of sense.

According to the wiki, there are Irenic versions of democracy, monarchy and oligarchy. We also believe that the spiritual monarchy (Divine Mandate) upgrades to Transcendent Empire rather than Irenic Monarchy. This means that the Irenic set can't be the "Spiritual" upgrades, because that slot is taken. Having them be the "Pacifist" versions of each makes a lot of sense.

Comparing Transcendent Empire to Divine Mandate, we see that it does basically the same thing except more so: more slavery tolerance and lower resettlement costs. For this reason, my guess is that the Irenic governments will do the following:

Irenic Democracy:

• +20% Happiness

Irenic Protectorate:

• Leader Capacity +8
• Leader Recruitment Costs -30%

Irenic Monarchy:

• Edict Cost -50%
• Planetary Edict Duration +50%
• Core Sector Planets +2

 

[Trithemius]

What @Yenzen says makes a lot of sense.

...

Irenic Democracy:

• +20% Happiness

Irenic Protectorate:

• Leader Capacity +8
• Leader Recruitment Costs -30%

Irenic Monarchy:

• Edict Cost -50%
• Planetary Edict Duration +50%
• Core Sector Planets +2

The Protectorate would certainly support "going wide" with many governed sectors instead of a centralised core of worlds. The happiness of the Irenic Democracy might represent a sucessful integration of differences. I am not sure if the Irenic Monarchy does as it seems to be quite centralised and control oriented... maybe it needs a different name?

 

[An Elder Thing]

The Irenic democracy is the advanced theocratic democracy, as I understand it, but the moral democracy. Am I mistaken?

Edit: I am. I was sure I read it was the advanced theocratic democracy at some point. Disregard earlier posts.

Now I can actually see where you are coming from. You made an error, and it coloured the end result, but I cannot see the fault with the logic you used to get from there to here. Where the premise correct, then your argument would be 100% right.

I am probably not saying this correctly since it is after midnight, but what I am saying is that I think your reasoning is sound, you just had the wrong premise to base it off on. And I sort of get the impression from that reasoning of intelligence.

 

[Trithemius]

Do we have an example of an Irenic Democracy in the Ekumene of Ursula K. Le Guin? Going wide is kind of different in a no-FTL setting but the unity of different perspectives seems like what Yenzen was trying to get across?

 

[beckermt]

I think the main thrust of the irenic ideals that they're using here is unity.
The irenic governments bring people together under a unified banner of peaceful (co-)existence.

Note: The definition of people may change depending on how xenophobic a govt is.

 

[flazeo255]

What @Yenzen says makes a lot of sense.

Irenic Monarchy:

• Edict Cost -50%
• Planetary Edict Duration +50%
• Core Sector Planets +2

I remember seeing one of the pictures from steam website showing core sector limit of 8/7 so that race most likely was this government as it would fit.

 

[Verenti]

Wow, they really ran out of ideas with the names, didn't they? "Irenic Republic, Irenic Protectorate, Irenic Monarchy, Martial Democracy and Martial Empire" Those are litteraly Ethos+base government.

Paradox, those need fixing.