What new tags should we see in vic 3

[The Goldfinch]

That sounds like it would be better done by having modifiers based on whichever culture is dominant in the formed Germany, not by having separate Germany tags. That way you could also have different things for, say, a Bavarian dominated Germany or a Rhinelander dominated Germany, and it would make the actual pops matter more.

I don't think it's a matter of particular "branch" Of German culture, I would say it's about social and political legacy of dominant state within the federation.

I like the idea of some modifiers, as long as they stay classy

 

[wilcoxchar]

I don't think it's a matter of particular "branch" Of German culture, I would say it's about social and political legacy of dominant state within the federation.

I like the idea of some modifiers, as long as they stay classy

Social and political legacy is exactly what is meant as a part of culture. Culture isn't just about linguistics.

 

[The Goldfinch]

Social and political legacy is exactly what is meant as a part of culture. Culture isn't just about linguistics.

But you mentioned whichever culture is dominant in newly formed state - I don't think austrians would be dominant after unification, as in 1848 I think it was around 7 million of them.

Furthermore, I am no expert to German culture, but I am not quite sure it would make that much sense to make as many distinct German culture groups, as EU 4 does.

 

[wilcoxchar]

But you mentioned whichever culture is dominant in newly formed state - I don't think austrians would be dominant after unification, as in 1848 I think it was around 7 million of them.

Furthermore, I am no expert to German culture, but I am not quite sure it would make that much sense to make as many distinct German culture groups, as EU 4 does.

It shouldn't have every single polity in pre-unification Germany with its own culture, but there were still distinct cultures in the era. A big part of German (and Italian) unification during this time period was creating that unified German (and Italian) cultural identity and either enforcing cultural uniformity (as Prussia and Bismarck did), or by excluding the opposing culture from a unified Germany as Austria was. Part of nationalism especially in many of the movements of the 19th century in not just Europe but across the Americas as well was creating a national identity at the expense of regional identities, and that should be something represented in the game, not something taken as inherent to a country tag.

 

[Kaspar Osraige]

You guys remember how easy it was to mod countries into Victoria 2? Well, I liked that a lot and I added some nations I found to be lacking to game files. I think most of them should be in game as releasable tags.
-Basque Country
-Yucatan/Mayapan(Mayan culture country in Yucatan and Guatemala)
-Greenland
-Sapmi
-Karelia
-Wales(It's a shame they are not a different culture)
-Galicia(Same)
-Corsica
-Malta
-Pontus(It was a big idea in that time among Greeks)
-Kurdistan(It was a big idea and big trouble for Ottomans of that time)
-Balochistan
-Syria(also Assyria, maybe Hatay Republic and Alawi state too)(Should have cores on Jordan, Palestine and Lebanon until a decision or something)
-Lebanon
-Jordan
-Palestine
-Kazakhstan
-Uzbekstan(Maybe Karakalpakstan too)
-Turkmenistan
-Sakha/Yakutia
-Siberia(Siberian independentist ideas were strong in Russia that time)
-Sicily
-Ainu
-Kalmykia
-Brittany(They might be a separate culture too)
-Hazaristan(For Hazara people in Afghanistan)
-Tajikistan
-Kyrgyzstan
-Tatarstan(Should be divided as Tatarstan and Bashkiria)
-Ceylon/Sri Lanka(Has cores in common with Tamil Nadu)
-Tamil Nadu/even Dravidia if you will
-North Caucasia(Ideally this would be divided between Ossetia, Circassia, Abkhazia, Chechynia, Ingushetia, Dagestan and Kabardino-Balkaria but my idea was to also represent the Imamate/Republic in the area)
-Libya
-Guyana(United Guyana tag with cores on all three Guyanas)
-Alaska
-Transcaucasia(Was a thing IRL. Might get a chance to incorporate other Caucasian areas)
-Ural(Represents the IRL Idel-Ural, and also for the in-game Uralic culture. Can be divided into Udmurtia, Mari El, Mordvinia, Chuvashia among others)
-Northwest/Cascadia
-New Afrika(African American state in Southern US, super fun playthrough)
-Rumelia(Turkish state in Macedonia, Thrace, Southern and Eastern Bulgaria, Kosovo, Gagauzia and Dobruja)
-Khuzestan(Arabic state in Arab areas of Iran)
-Tamazight(Berber/Amazigh-Tuareg state)
-Tuareg
-Turkmeneli(Turkish state in northern Syria and Iraq, proposed)
-Champa(For Cham people of Vietnam)
-Bengal/Bangladesh
-Frisia
-Aotearoa(United native New Zealander tag)
-Aboriginal Austria(United native Australian tag)
-Patagonia(Not a must and kinda stupid I guess, but can be a native tag)
-Amazonia(Totally arbitrary country for Amazonas region in-game)
-Sudan/Nubia
-Occitania(Maybe can get further divided into a Gasconia or a Provence, also super fun playthrough)
-Cossack Republic(to represent republics of Don and Kuban, in Ukrainian majority areas in game without Ukrainian cores)
-Sul/Piratini
-Far East(Far Eastern Republic, a short timey independent state in Russian Far East)
-Normandy(Meh, maybe keep this one out)
And for unifiable tags I'd suggest(apart from the ones mentioned above)
-Turkestan/Turan
-Benelux
-Maghreb
-Ambazonia
-Bolivaria(pan-South American tag)
-Caribbea
-Mesoamerica
-Indochina
-India
-Pacific Union

 

[Thure]

-Patagonia(Not a must and kinda stupid I guess, but can be a native tag)

Kingdom of Araucanía and Patagonia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[smop4u]

So what new tags could vic 2 have? With at least some historical precedent( so no meme countries like the roman empire or babylon)

1. Polish–Lithuanian–Ruthenian Commonwealth
2. Grand Duchy of Posen
3. Sorbs/Lusatians/Wends
4. Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria
5. Silesia
6. Pomerania/Pomerelia

 

[Xythian208]

I'd like to see a tag for a unified, independent East indies. It would be hard to choose a name for it though, maybe just Indonesia.

 

[Te. Kenzo]

-Sicily

Sicily is an especially important tag. You can't understand the dynamics of Risorgimento without sicilian indipendentism of 1848.

 

[ero_sk]

Israel, for a bit of ahistorical/fantasy play.

 

[Blindbohemian]

Aotearoa(United native New Zealander tag)

Please no

For the disagree-r, the United Tribes of New Zealand was a native New Zealand tag that claimed (and was working on) sovereignty over all of NZ in the period. It had founding documents and legal status. Just as France is the best formable for Orleans and Gascony in EUIV rather than some made up word, United Tribes would be the best choice for a Māori (i.e. “native New Zealander”) formable.

“Aotearoa” is a Māori word that’s been wedged into a western concept that was never a country or political unit, has never been proposed as anything except a name for modern westernised New Zealand, and makes no sense whatsoever as a tag in any game.

It doesn’t even make sense for a unified New Zealand; historically “Aotearoa” refers to the North Island, and possibly even just the north of the island, not all of New Zealand.

If Māori tags have to have a formable it should be the United Tribes. If they must have one that isn’t on the map in 1836 then “Maoridom”, since at least they all identified as Maori, would be infinitely preferable to “Aotearoa”, which is essentially a made up word. One may note that when the Kīngitanga crowned a Māori monarch in 1858 he was called the Māori King, not the King of Aotearoa or anything else. Note also that many other states around the world take their names from their people, not from an ambiguous indigenous word for parts of their landscapes.

I understand and appreciate the desire to represent Māori and other indigenous peoples out of a willingness to give them equal respect and attention with, say, European peoples. But, representation that gets it wildly wrong or representation that forces their Māori-shaped peg into Western-shaped holes is at least as disrespectful as no representation at all.

Insisting on an “Aotearoa” formable because it’s “cooler” than the real polities and real efforts of Māori reduces Māori to a source of “cool”—and is intensely disrespectful, a sort of cultural imperialism.

 

[geogus]

Its already confirmed piratininga, an break way state in southern brazil that starts the game in indenpendence rebelion.

IRL they rebelled for 10 years but in the end made a peace deal with brazil and rejoined the country

 

[Bradley Hutson]

If you really want to be ambitious, I think there should be a tag for every culture and every geographical region. By geographical region, I mean something similar to the de jure counties/duchies/kingdoms/empires in CK3. The exact name and flag for a geographical region tag may depend on its government form and/or the culture of the people controlling it. Geographical tags would likely be most commonly used for colonial territories as well as independent states that emerge from such territories.

-New Afrika(African American state in Southern US, super fun playthrough)

Minor nitpick here, but I am not sure it would be realistic for that exact spelling to be used in the Victoria 3 timeframe. I don't think spelling Africa with a k became popular among African-Americans until the Black Power movement in the 1960s.

-Aboriginal Austria(United native Australian tag)

I doubt that a united independent Australian Aborigine state would have the word "Aboriginal" in it. It seems more likely that it would be called simply "Australia" or use some sort of Aboriginal word referring to the landmass (I can't seem to find any though). Here is a possible flag, although it wasn't created until 1971, well after this game's timeframe:

I'd like to see a tag for a unified, independent East indies. It would be hard to choose a name for it though, maybe just Indonesia.

There are several names that could be used:

• Indonesia (as you mentioned)
• Nusantara (Indonesian/Javanese term for Maritime Southeast Asia)
• Maphilindo (or MaPhilIndo, a portmanteau of Malaysia, Philippines, and Indonesia)

Personally I like Nusantara best

 

[CorneliusBottomly]

A tag for non-monarchist Ottomans that nevertheless keeps its territories intact, perhaps. Obviously "Ottoman Republic" would be strange but "Turkey" doesn't make sense for a multi-ethnic republic either. "Eastern Mediterranean Community"?

That would just be the Ottoman tag with a different government wouldn't it?

 

[Alyssea]

Personally I like Nusantara best

Nusantara isn't just Javanese, it's also used very widely in the Malay language to refer to maritime Southeast Asia. Lest we forget, the Malay language was the lingua franca of the region before colobialism. It would absolutely be the best endonym to use to refer to a united Malay world. Please, do NOT use Indonesia, that is a colonial name with no native roots that a local pan-nationalist movement would certainly not use.

 

[maxk94]

Byzantium?

 

[Blindbohemian]

I doubt that a united independent Australian Aborigine state would have the word "Aboriginal" in it. It seems more likely that it would be called simply "Australia" or use some sort of Aboriginal word referring to the landmass (I can't seem to find any though)

Because there aren’t any, because the idea of Australia as one cohesive thing is a colonial idea, exactly like “Aotearoa”. I really wish people would stop pushing for the indigenous countries in this and other games to work toward forming colonial geographic concepts.

Please, do NOT use Indonesia, that is a colonial name with no native roots that a local pan-nationalist movement would certainly not use.

Exactly.

 

[The Goldfinch]

It shouldn't have every single polity in pre-unification Germany with its own culture, but there were still distinct cultures in the era. A big part of German (and Italian) unification during this time period was creating that unified German (and Italian) cultural identity and either enforcing cultural uniformity (as Prussia and Bismarck did), or by excluding the opposing culture from a unified Germany as Austria was. Part of nationalism especially in many of the movements of the 19th century in not just Europe but across the Americas as well was creating a national identity at the expense of regional identities, and that should be something represented in the game, not something taken as inherent to a country tag.

What distinct cultures do you exactly mean? As far as I know cultural divisions between lands were not even an issue.

The game in II Reich was about level of autonomy of particular political entities, like kingdom of Bavaria, and amount of their representatives to Bundestag. Thats why distinctions between different "germanies" should rather be centered around unifier influence, dominant entity within Bundestag

 

[fr-rein]

My list is small as many were mentioned already:
- Mingrelia
- Svanetia
- Mari Republic
- Tatarstan
- Majeerteen
- Silesia
- Man
- Rumelia (Turk-led Balkan tag)
- Taiwan/Formosa tag
- more separatist Brazil&Mexico tags, especially in North
- ability to split Madagascar again

 

[Kaspar Osraige]

Please no

For the disagree-r, the United Tribes of New Zealand was a native New Zealand tag that claimed (and was working on) sovereignty over all of NZ in the period. It had founding documents and legal status. Just as France is the best formable for Orleans and Gascony in EUIV rather than some made up word, United Tribes would be the best choice for a Māori (i.e. “native New Zealander”) formable.

“Aotearoa” is a Māori word that’s been wedged into a western concept that was never a country or political unit, has never been proposed as anything except a name for modern westernised New Zealand, and makes no sense whatsoever as a tag in any game.

It doesn’t even make sense for a unified New Zealand; historically “Aotearoa” refers to the North Island, and possibly even just the north of the island, not all of New Zealand.

If Māori tags have to have a formable it should be the United Tribes. If they must have one that isn’t on the map in 1836 then “Maoridom”, since at least they all identified as Maori, would be infinitely preferable to “Aotearoa”, which is essentially a made up word. One may note that when the Kīngitanga crowned a Māori monarch in 1858 he was called the Māori King, not the King of Aotearoa or anything else. Note also that many other states around the world take their names from their people, not from an ambiguous indigenous word for parts of their landscapes.

I understand and appreciate the desire to represent Māori and other indigenous peoples out of a willingness to give them equal respect and attention with, say, European peoples. But, representation that gets it wildly wrong or representation that forces their Māori-shaped peg into Western-shaped holes is at least as disrespectful as no representation at all.

Insisting on an “Aotearoa” formable because it’s “cooler” than the real polities and real efforts of Māori reduces Māori to a source of “cool”—and is intensely disrespectful, a sort of cultural imperialism.

Well, today I learned. I didn't have such an intention, I just googled native name for New Zealand and that is what I found