What new content should be prioritized for DLC/major patches?

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GrounchoVilla

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I am curious what other players think paradox ought to focus on for expanding the gameplay and making it more immersive, and to capture the problems of the victorian era. I had some thoughts on what new mechanics and themes might be explored based on what I've seen on the forum and my own experience and knowledge of the epoch, and perhaps people have other ideas.

(1) Pollution and environmentalism - industrialization caused massive ecological damage and hindered the improvement of standards of living. Modeling environmentalism and adding it as a set of laws and a leader ideology with corresponding mechanics could capture this (there's already a pollution level mechanic that has no real role but could be expanded on)

(2) Military doctrines and more detailed military decisions - military doctrines would add some local flavor to each nation (Zulus could have their bull and horns strategy and the Impi system, Britain can get better marines, France can get the foreign legion, etc). More military choices would also give players some mechanics to effect military outcomes a bit better instead of just praying that your combat width will be better than that of one's enemy

(3) More local flavor decisions for nations like Japan, Austria, France, etc - this is a common element of DLC in other paradox games and could translate well to V3 to add more depth to some areas currently lacking. I'm guessing this would be a part of any DLC and might be seen in patches

(4) More in-depth colonization and methods of interacting with decentralized countries - the current game gives basically two flavors of colonization - colonize to settle, and colonize to exploit, but colonialism often entailed many different practices such as diplomacy, the creation of protectorates, and so on. And there's really only one interaction you have with decentralized nations, which is to conquer them when they get mad enough.

(5) More economics mechanics - I think there's a lot that could be altered to make the current economic system more in depth and engaging. I'm sure people have their own ideas

(6) Enriching the IG system - the IG system is a good vanilla system, but it abstracts out of many important issues including tensions within IGs (for instance, northern landowners in the Civil War were not particularly interested in preserving slavery, while the southern petty-bourgeois often was)

(7) Enriching the religious mechanics - religion right now has no real mechanical impact outside of discrimination and a few taboos. Major religious buildings like Cathedrals and mechanics for each religion would do a lot to improve the game

(8) More diplomatic options - Victoria 3 has in some ways a richer diplomacy system than many grand strategy games, but is still missing some things. There's the fact I already mentioned about too few ways to interact with decentralized powers, but there could be more ways of interacting with vassal states too. For instance, subsidizing vassals, sharing tech (perhaps giving some tech spread, not the full technology) or even building them farms and factories. There's also the fact that we can never add war goals once a war has started (it should be hard to do but possible) or join a war in progress (also could be hard to do but possible), without which we can't really model events like the first world war (of course, Ottoman Turkey, Italy and America among other nations all entered the war late)

(9) More cultural options - the game currently allows you to build art academies and there was talk of adding museums in the future, but there's much more cultural depth to be captured, from opera and other forms of music to theater to literature. It's such an important part of the 19th century, from Dickens to Dostoyevsky. There are currently events for great works of literature etc
 
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FryFroFella

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There's so much to fix up in the base game that I really don't want to think about additional content until that's all sorted out, but I think the best first addition, when it's time, needs to be diplomacy.

Specifically, more ways to interact with subjects/overlords (what buildings to prioritize, ability to invest/divest in sectors, ability to influence internal politics) and more, more fleshed out intra-market interactions.

After that is internal politics. It has a good base, but still feels too predictable and too easy to "solve" by midgame. Player is not faced with meaningful challenges on the political front, after you sideline the landowners it's basically a question of whether or not you want to be capitalist or some kind of socialist. I'd like to see movements play a much larger role in laws being passed/the player being challenged, wages reduced across the board to make workers agitation actually meaningful and era appropriate, and ultimately internal politics WITHIN IG's (the potential for a few different competing ideologies within an IG).

All that said, I'm sure they already have a DLC roadmap, and really right now the main focus should be (and to the devs credit seems to be) getting the base game in order.
 
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DukeLeto42

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(1) Pollution and environmentalism - industrialization caused massive ecological damage and hindered the improvement of standards of living. Modeling environmentalism and adding it as a set of laws and a leader ideology with corresponding mechanics could capture this (there's already a pollution level mechanic that has no real role but could be expanded on)
Completely biased here since this is my personal area of expertise, but I'm absolutely in support of this. As a small wishlist:
  1. Heavy mining removing entire mountaintops in places like Appalachia and the ecological impact of tailings on agriculture
  2. Health consequences of urban areas without massively revamped sanitation
  3. Headline disasters like the Johnstown Flood (which, incidentally, is very important for the tourism industry, as it's where the tradition of commemorative spoons comes from!)
  4. Establishment of the first national parks and the conservation movement.
 
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Josar

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Diplomacy especially during diplomatic plays should be more dynamic with more options, such as pushing for more goals in case of a back down. It should be easier to make alliances, with a reduction in the base -100 reasons.
 
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FranklyJustNess

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More interactions with subject would certainly be a really good thing. Not sure if we will see influencing their economies before some kind of foreign investment mechanic is introduced though.

Changes to economic systems are definitely a desired thing. Currently raising SoL is the most optimal way to play and Council Republic does it best, making capitalist investment pool a relatively minor benefit in comparison. There needs to be more rebalancing there, that makes both of them more equal. Additionally command economy has to be massively changed as currently its ownership method is really quite crap and is nearly strictly inferior to both worker co-op and private ownership.

Changes to cultures, discrimination and assimilation. It's a super basic system, that has quite a bit of flaws and I fully expect a DLC + major update to focus on it. There's so much that can be changed there once you start, that I don't really wanna go into details, as it would still be just a few ideas. Essentially removing the binary distinction on discriminated and not, allowing for different kinds of discrimination, etc. can really make it so much more interesting.
 
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Blk82

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There's so much to fix up in the base game that I really don't want to think about additional content until that's all sorted out, but I think the best first addition, when it's time, needs to be diplomacy.

Specifically, more ways to interact with subjects/overlords (what buildings to prioritize, ability to invest/divest in sectors, ability to influence internal politics) and more, more fleshed out intra-market interactions.

After that is internal politics. It has a good base, but still feels too predictable and too easy to "solve" by midgame. Player is not faced with meaningful challenges on the political front, after you sideline the landowners it's basically a question of whether or not you want to be capitalist or some kind of socialist. I'd like to see movements play a much larger role in laws being passed/the player being challenged, wages reduced across the board to make workers agitation actually meaningful and era appropriate, and ultimately internal politics WITHIN IG's (the potential for a few different competing ideologies within an IG).

All that said, I'm sure they already have a DLC roadmap, and really right now the main focus should be (and to the devs credit seems to be) getting the base game in order.

I think the underlying problem is the underlying design decisions with the game. Basically, the game needs mechanisms that cause WWI to happen, the Habsburg and Ottoman empires to implode without railroading, and Communists revolts not be to absolute monarchies.
 
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GrounchoVilla

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Changes to economic systems are definitely a desired thing. Currently raising SoL is the most optimal way to play and Council Republic does it best, making capitalist investment pool a relatively minor benefit in comparison. There needs to be more rebalancing there, that makes both of them more equal. Additionally command economy has to be massively changed as currently its ownership method is really quite crap and is nearly strictly inferior to both worker co-op and private ownership.
yeah sometimes the game feels like it was made as a collaborative effort between Adam Smith and Rosa Luxemburg, which is fine for me since I like the non-vanguardist socialist playthrough best, but ultimately replayability comes from a diversity of similarly viable pathways (at least from a gameplay perspective)
 
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GrounchoVilla

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I think the underlying problem is the underlying design decisions with the game. Basically, the game needs mechanisms that cause WWI to happen, the Habsburg and Ottoman empires to implode without railroading, and Communists revolts not be to absolute monarchies.
I've been laughing at the communist keiserreich which emerged in Austria in my current socialist British Republic playthrough.
 
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I think 'foreign investment' would be a good thing to work on for a DLC and/or major patch - some way to model the situation where people from one country (or even state! this could also add internal tension and make the sprawling multicultural integrating-african-colony empires less ideal) can invest in development elsewhere, and share some of the benefits.

That would also likely provide a relative nerf to the council republic meta - as presumably worker coops couldn't be foreign investments or investors, that'd help capitalists more than socialists by letting them reap the benefits.
 
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Fawr

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I feel the next major DLC/update should be focused on getting the current vanilla game into a better state (performance fixes, UI fixes, AI economy fixes, flu pandemic fixes, overland vs seaborne trade, etc).

I know they need to do a few extra features to drive sales, so I'd suggest while programmers work on the stuff above, they get content creators to add flavour to a group of countries (your point #3). I suspect these are cheaper features and are less likely to create new gamebreaking issues. To pick the country I'd suggest using their data to see what the most played countries are (and pick a few of the top 10 that fit a coherent theme). Work on giving them extra depth and special characteristics (unique IGs, decisions, events, journal entries, etc).
 

Kultakala Siika

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Personally I would like to see lots of improvements of core mechanics and UX people request as included in the free patches, and buy DLC for new mechanics, new in-depth flavor, stuff like that.

I have had most fun with the IG/politics and economics mechanics (points 5 and 6). I think they are Vic3's current strengths and PDX should play to them. Sure, fix the unfun parts of war and diplo so that they are no longer grating, but one important priority for first DLCs should be make the fun stuff more fun. Hopefully Vic 3 will be a viable game for the long run, and we get to see plenty of stuff in years to come.

After IG/politics is solid and stable, then they could start adding more involved mechanics for cultures, nationalism, diplomacy / foreign policy, colonialism, migration, environmental effects, warfare, service economy, subject interactions and federalism, naval warfare, military, etc. Each of them can build on the IG/Pops/economics mechanics and enhance the overall game.

How to best package new features into updates to DLCs is beyond me.

Finally, here is some not-top priority DLCs that I would like to see one day if we are so lucky:

i Naval warfare update. I think the current system is OK basis for land combat -- one battalion is not that different from another in the grand strategic perspective -- but during this era number of battleships and dreadnoughts mattered. It could take years to build one! If a fleet of ships is sunk after a decisive naval engagement, the player notices it was decisive because their empire has now N-x battleships instead of N, and building a new fleet of x will be a significant economic endeavor. However, this would require significant update to mechanics (introduce individual units that can be constructed and sunk) -> DLC.

ii Something that expands Dependents' role in the economy, especially service production. (C'mon, think of iconic TV series and films set during Victorian-Edwardian era. Downton Abbey, Wooster and Jeeves, Upstairs Downstairs, Forsyte Saga, Matador for the Danes out there ... yet none of my aristocrats ever complains how difficult it is to find domestic servants in rapidly industrializing economy, I can solve it be setting my Urban Center PM to use a lot of glass?) However, again, best suited for a later DLC.