What nations that existed in 1444 are still missing in the current version of EU4?

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neo120590

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In principle, Desmond should be a vassal of England. In practice, I'm not sure. Can vassals make war on each other? Desmond and Ormond were in constant conflict IRL.

Only the daimyo gov't type can be vassals and declare war on other vassals afaik.
 

Closet Skeleton

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The nation of Oman should be split into two tags the sultanate of Oman and the Imamate of Muscat, which was a theocracy. An Ibadi theocracy would be interesting to play as
well.

Wrong way round. The Imamate's power base was in the inland tribal areas, Muscat would be a republic vassal of an Imamate of Oman if it was split into two tags.
 

Evie HJ

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The Mossi were a culture, not a state. Traditionally, there were 7 Mossi kingdoms. How many of these existed at 1444 is a very open question. But the Mossi area in 1444 was certainly split into many more than 1 or 2 polities. So, for example, while I don't know whether Yatenga, per se, existed in 1444 or not, the area would be better represented by having Yatenga exist in part of the area currently controlled by "Mossi".

The problem is even more complex than "how many existed then". The truth is, we don't know with any certainty that ANY of the traditional Mossi kingdoms existed at that point (traditional dates and scholarly accounts are all over the place on when exactly the first Mossi states were founded).

Compounding the problem, we have a group traditionally identified as "Mossi" that apparently raided the delta o the niger in the previous century, while scholarly accounts put the ancestors of the traditional Mossi kingdoms all the way over on the other end of Burkina at the same time. Compounding it still more, there are accounts of the Mossi being major threats to Songhai early in Songhai's rise to power (circa the 15th century) - something a divided Mossi simply wouldn't be.
 

radiatoren

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Italy:
Most Serene Republic of Lucca
Margraviate of Montferrat (vassal of Savoy)
Margraviate of Salucco (vassal of Savoy)

Iberia:
Kingdom of Valencia (junior partner under Aragon)
Kingdom of Leon (junior partner under Castile) because: The union between León and Castile was never accepted by Leonese people. The Kingdom of León and the Kingdom of Castile kept different Parliaments, different flags, different coin and different laws until the Modern Era, when Spain, like other European states, centralized governmental power.

Ireland:
Kingdom of Desmond
Kingdom of East Breifne
Kingdom of West Breifne
Kingdom of Tyrconnell

Baltic Region:
Bishopric of Ösel–Wiek (vassal of Livonia Order)
Bishopric of Dorpat (vassal of Livonia Order)

HRE:
Duchy of Ingolstad
Duchy of Landshut
Duchy of Munchen
Excellent european suggestions!
Others could be to add in some african East coast area improvements, some saharan shakeup and some more breaking of the wastelands.
Add another couple of russian minors, take another look at the indian east coast.
Maybe look at adding an island nation in oceania.
 

BritNavFan

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The problem is even more complex than "how many existed then". The truth is, we don't know with any certainty that ANY of the traditional Mossi kingdoms existed at that point (traditional dates and scholarly accounts are all over the place on when exactly the first Mossi states were founded).

Compounding the problem, we have a group traditionally identified as "Mossi" that apparently raided the delta o the niger in the previous century, while scholarly accounts put the ancestors of the traditional Mossi kingdoms all the way over on the other end of Burkina at the same time. Compounding it still more, there are accounts of the Mossi being major threats to Songhai early in Songhai's rise to power (circa the 15th century) - something a divided Mossi simply wouldn't be.

Well, yes.

Thing is, though, that while (this being EU) the game models the Mossi and the Songhai as early modern European states, they were of course nothing of the kind. (I think that using the CK2 engine to represent Songhai as a feudal state and the Mossi as a bunch of tribal provinces would be a much better representation of the situation than anything one can easily do in EU. If you read the history of Songhai it really does read like a CKII game.) If you model Songhai and Mossi using the rules for EU states, then Mossi has to be a blob of about the same size as Songhai if it's to be a threat of any sort to them. But the histories of the area constantly refer to "raiding" (again something that there's rules for in CK2 but not, except to a limited extent for Steppe Hordes, in EU4), and also Songhai having numerous civil wars, as one half-brother or another tried to take over the kingdom, but EU4 treats Songhai as if civil wars were as rare there as they were in Europe at that time.

A start would be to borrow the rules for tribal wars, looting provinces, and tribal succession that are currently used by steppe nomads and apply them to most of the states in west Africa: Songhai, the Mossi, the Tuareg, the Seifawa (KBO), others, but not the Hausa states or Benin. (Ashanti on the other hand gives the impression of having behaved much more like a European state, fighting wars of conquest and integrating the captured areas into its own territory. Whereas the Songhai or the Seifawa or the Mossi would go on a raid, loot, take slaves, go home, and then come back to raid again a few more years later.)

A problem with representing Mossi as a unitary state at the start of the game is that in EU states with homogenous religion and culture rarely split up.

I don't see any particular problem with the conflicting reports of "Mossi" raids in widely dispersed places. It's like "Viking" raids in widely dispersed places, except that instead of travelling across the sea in ships they would have been travelling across the savanna on horses. We usually think of all land as being claimed by one government or another, so that military forces can't just ride across the landscape however they like without stirring up armed opposition, but in that place and time there were huge areas which were claimed by no government, so a force of cavalrymen could just ride across enormous distances and ride around any force that might be strong enough to give them serious opposition.
 
Last edited:

Eilif

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A nice addition for a different game in West Africa is the Nri, of the Igbo land, east of the Niger delta. What makes this country unique? It was a Theocracy focused in trade rather than military and was a fervent opponent of slavery. They could start with (or have a nice unique decision) slavery abolished. So they could have malus relations with any country with slave provinces and any time they conquer a salve province it changes the trade good to something else.
It existed from 948 to 1911.
 

Demetrios

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Iberia:
Kingdom of Valencia (junior partner under Aragon)
Kingdom of Leon (junior partner under Castile) because: The union between León and Castile was never accepted by Leonese people. The Kingdom of León and the Kingdom of Castile kept different Parliaments, different flags, different coin and different laws until the Modern Era, when Spain, like other European states, centralized governmental power.

The personal union between Leon and Castile was much stronger than that quote from Wikipedia might indicate. After the final union in 1230, nothing really shook that unity, not two civil/succesion wars nor an invasion by John of Gaunt as a pretender. Separating Leon out from Castile would be giving the region a lot more autonomy than it had in real life. Valencia is an even worse example; as a Christian state, it never had an independent existence outside of the Crown of Aragon. If you want a Spanish PU, use the Kingdom of Majorca, which at least had been independent in the relatively recent past and still had pretenders to that throne a few decades before the game's start.
 
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RockmanYoshi

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Thirding the Hormuz and African suggestions.

For Oman, don't split it into an imamate and a sultanate, I think a faction system would be much better. But move their capital from Muscat to Nizwa (IRL Bahla but it's the same area)

The Jewish nation of Semien should be there, in Ethiopia.

The Ikko-ikki should have it's own tag as well., that spawns via event kinda like Sulu as an early revolter state.

The Nri kingdom in Nigeria (which was unique since the rulers did not exercise any military power over their subjects)

Andorra which would be an interesting OPM

And of course the 3 L's

Lunda
Luba
Lucca
 

Mauer

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I mean its nothing to in depth but if your playing as an italian state you get an event where you get Leonardo de Vinci as a level 3 artist type advisor although in all honesty I have never been able to afford to pay him when it happened to me

Those events suck, you can never afford the great level 3 advisor by the time they show up, they were great in EU3 when advisors costed the same and the higher their level actually meant you got better benefits for them.
 

blackchoas

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Those events suck, you can never afford the great level 3 advisor by the time they show up, they were great in EU3 when advisors costed the same and the higher their level actually meant you got better benefits for them.

^this. Ethiopia gets an event really early that gives them a level 3 statesman they cannot afford.

Maybe they could alter it so event spawned level 3 advisors cost less, because it makes sense that they scale in cost it just makes events like these useless most of the time
 

Sol717

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