What language did the Byzantine speak?

[unmerged(10416)]

Is it true that the language spoken at the Byzantine court during the late medieval period was not understandable to the common Greek people??

This article says so...

However, since the well-educated writers who led both the state and the church were accustomed to thinking of the traditional formal language as the only possible form of expression, it was not possible for the weak and scattered strength of the chroniclers to ennoble their popular diction in either phrasiological or syntactical terms. In their hands this popular diction remained a rather unstructured and awkward tool. However, the choice of some of the leading literary figures to use methods that were so thoroughly despised demonstrates that the chroniclers were not writing to the same audience as the historians. Rather, they were addressing their works to the great mass of the people, particularly the thousands of poorly educated inhabitants of the monasteries, who were eager as a result of their religious formation to learn about world affairs.
[221] By the later Middle Ages, the historical works of the higher style were no longer completely understandable to wider circles as a result of the continuing development of the living language. This was also true of chronicles despite the fact that they provided a simpler portrayal of events. As a consequence, many of them were translated into the contemporary popular idiom. Moreover, in many cases, this process did not stop at mere translation but instead led to the creation of entirely new works. In these cases, the entire tone of the texts as well as the vocabulary and form were popularized. Indeed, in some cases the content was brought closer to the tastes of the people through the insertion of mythological elements.

And what language(s) did the comman people of Asia Minor, Macedonia or Thrace - the lands outside Hellas - speak during the Byzantine period?

 

[unmerged(4253)]

Yes, it's true, the Bizantine empire spoke Greek, not Latin. The rest of The Empire in the East was more accustomed to Greek than to Latin because of the Helenistic era and the Age of Alexander.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

No, I meant to ask whether the Greek that was spoken at the court was actually understandable by the common people.
The article didn't say the upper class spoke Latin as a primary language (they had never done that) but that their Greek was highly old-fashioned and styled after the ancient authors (Plato, Herodotus, etc), in contrast to the language spoken by the average illiterate peasant or city dweller.

I find that hard to believe since just a while ago a Greek told me that he was able to read most of the stuff the Byzantine writers wrote.

So I would be grateful if someone with more knowledge of the Byzantine history could enlighten me on that subject.

 

[stnylan]

Yes, more or less.

Court Greek was Classical Greek. Apparently the Greek Anna Comnena wrote Alexiad in is not so very different from the Greek used by Thucydides. Ordinary Greek though had been evolving for 1500 years by that time, and was unsurprisingly somewhat different.

That said the differences can be overstated - the pace of change of Greek is slower than the pace of change of English. A modern Greek apparently can make a little sense of Classical Greek. I think it would be reasonable to assume that byzantine Greek hadn't diverged as much. The difference would be like trying to understand Chaucer, roughly. Or so I have been led to believe.

That said I imagine the nobles knew how to speak the ordinary Greek of their day as well. After all, speaking one language in court and another the rest of the time was a fairly common occurence in that time.

 

[unmerged(10416)]

Thanks for the info!

 

[El Greco]

Being a Greek, (so being able to read Ancient Greek), I can hardly understand the meaning of a text written in ancient greek. It depends also in the education, as I had a scientific one. A greek that had a literature education can certainly understand more than me.

 

[unmerged(2695)]

The everyday language was called "Roman" - or Rhomish by the mid 19th Century.

 

[unmerged(8523)]

Originally posted by Hardu
The everyday language was called "Roman" - or Rhomish by the mid 19th Century.

hardu, is that how it would look in norwegian? to me, it looks too much like "romany" (the language of the gypsies) or "romansch" (the sub-group of rhaeto-romanic); in greek we called (and many still do) the language "ta rhomai-i-ka"

steph

 

[unmerged(8523)]

Originally posted by stnylan

Court Greek was Classical Greek. Apparently the Greek Anna Comnena wrote Alexiad in is not so very different from the Greek used by Thucydides...

they are very similar in form, yes; in sound, no - in ancient greek my name would have been pronounced "step-hanos", by later roman times it would have been "stefanos" as it is today

also, ancient greek had a pitch accent that has been replaced by a stress accent

That said the differences can be overstated - the pace of change of Greek is slower than the pace of change of English...

very true, except that the last couple of years have brought such importations from english, french, etc., that the language is deconstructing analogous to english after the norman conquest

steph

 

[stnylan]

Originally posted by Iostephanos
they are very similar in form, yes; in sound, no - in ancient greek my name would have been pronounced "step-hanos", by later roman times it would have been "stefanos" as it is today

also, ancient greek had a pitch accent that has been replaced by a stress accent



very true, except that the last couple of years have brought such importations from english, french, etc., that the language is deconstructing analogous to english after the norman conquest

steph

Thanks for clarifying I, of course, have no idea how mediaeval Greek was pronouced, but given the difference in pronunciation between Classical Latin and Church Latin it makes perfect sense.

I knew that modern Greek has imported words and so on, but not the degree.

 

[The Andy-Man]

I think aparantly the Cypriot dyalect is closer to classical greek, simply because its an island i guess.

My dad can certainly make a little sense of it anyway.

 

[unmerged(8523)]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
I think apparently the Cypriot dialect is closer to classical greek, simply because its an island i guess.

not really -- modern greek in general has many sounds not present in classical greek; cypriot in particular has a few not present in standard greek

the only dialects considered "close to the original" are those spoken in southern italy and sometimes a dorian remnant spoken in the pelopponese, both of which have only a handful of speakers anymore

i don't know much about the latter, but as to the former, the greek spoken in southern italy has been virtually free of outside influence; modern greek in greece proper has been influenced by italian, french, turkish, and the other balkan languages

greek in cyprus has additional influence from french, english, and turkish

steph

 

[The Andy-Man]

speaking of all this, does anyone know a good place/way to learn classical greek?

 

[unmerged(9563)]

I took a class on it... maybe look at a local college (you don't need to go to Ivy League for 1 Greek Class) and see if they have a language program you can sign up for...