What kind of variants do you make? For tanks and aircraft

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coffeelingfine

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I know it largeley depends on what country you're playing and what you're trying to do.

I always try to max out the engine on my fighters though, and increase weapons and reliability by at least 2.
 

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For tanks, upgrade armor until you're sure you can get the armor bonus (if doing so is feasible). Then upgrade speed (don't exceed the speed of your mot/mech), then reliability if you want.

For planes in SP, always do range 5 on everything, then you can do reliability 5 on fighters for most situations or engine 5 if the air war is particularly intense.
 
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Dlin369

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To be honest, I just mindlessly upgrade my vehicles when my experience gets filled up to 500 stars. I upgrade such a way that the stats are all balanced out and there are no negatives anywhere and don't bother actually looking at the stats long term. I should probably change that.
 
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Simon_9732495

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Medium Tanks: +5 on Gun +2 on Reliability (maybe +1 on speed)
Fighters: +5 on range +5 agility
I mitigate the low reliabilty of fighters by always forgetting to train them. :D

I really don't know: Would it better to upgrade reliability instead of agility for fighters?
 
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HugsAndSnuggles

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I, usually, minimize attrition/accident losses first by getting reliability to 100%, then go for combat stats. Although, depending on a country, I might not have the XP for combat stats until the next model (power gap between those is too large to bother with previous models, anyway).
 

desphorin

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Medium Tanks: +5 on Gun +2 on Reliability (maybe +1 on speed)
Fighters: +5 on range +5 agility
I mitigate the low reliabilty of fighters by always forgetting to train them. :D

I really don't know: Would it better to upgrade reliability instead of agility for fighters?

Attrition loss on planes are really low (not remotely comparable to land-based equipment). I wouldnt bother to upgrade reliability at all, they can go as low as 40% and I wouldnt care. You lost more planes fighting in the air than the tiny bit on accidents anyway.
 
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CrazyZombie

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Fighters: max engine when it's fighter 1936 model, when fighter 2 is ready - max engine and then simultaneous upgrade of guns and reliability until maxed too.

As for tanks - depends. For heavies I go full engine improvement, for mediums - sometimes, engine, sometimes armor+reliability.
 

Voigt

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On Fighters full engine as usual. After that depending on nation and expexted resistance. Either +2 gun and +3 range (Germany) or directly gooing for +5 range (Japan, USA).
If I can I try to get +5 everywhere though.

On tanks depending on mod and/or mp.
Normaly I don't bother with +armour, don't like the race for pierce or no pierce. Normally dedicated anti-tank divisions will pierce you either way, no matter what you do. (Unless you do like 3 Mech, 17 Heavy Tanks with only engineers support, saw this design once)
So for tanks I mostly just go +5 Gun for 100 XP and then probably reliability.

For mods like IHMP with higher attrition just going +5 reliability seems fine, with maybe engine for more speed aswell later.
 

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I almost never use that system. It's really generic and boring and lame. And it seems pointless to me.

I disagree about it being pointless. Whether it's boring is a question only you can answer about yourself.

The performance improvement on fighter aircraft from adding a design company and applying XP correctly is substantial. There's a reason I've spent so much time on this forum (and in the game) testing mechanics around airplanes. Finding the right "meta" for aircraft (in various situations) yields large dividends both in MP and SP. The dividends are not as visible in SP, but that's because the AI doesn't design planes well and doesn't grab air doctrines the way I do and isn't that great at production. But even against the AI I can get increased performance through aircraft design.

I tend to be more eccelectic with tank design, but that's because I'm not always designing tanks to specifically beat opposing tanks. There's a lot more for tanks to do, and because we have TDs and SPART, there's a lot more possible specialization than with aircraft. With planes, if you want to kill opposing planes with your planes, design fighters well. The end. What you don't do is design a TAC with massive air to air firepower to kill other planes, because that's literally not a thing you can do in the game. (Although there was a time when STRs were almost better at killing fighters than fighters were.)

With tanks, I may not even care about piercing, because I'm not trying to get into idiotic panzer jousting contests with Panthers shooting at Shermans. Or I might really care, because I want my panzer formations to act as counter-armor divisions. Or I want my regular tanks to be "meh," while I let the TDs and SPART do the heavy lifting with piercing and soft attack. Or maybe I want to run HTDs in my infantry divisions, but I know enemy armor isn't that great, so I focus on stacking armor on the TDs. Or maybe I'm wanting to get crazy levels of SA, so I design both regular tanks and SPART with massive firepower upgrades and ignore speed and armor. Or maybe I don't give a damn about firepower, but I want panzer divisions that can drive around at 12 kph and just drive all over retreating infantry, so it's all about those LARM And speed upgrades. Or maybe I don't even build regular tanks, but instead create MOT divisions with some TDs and SPART mixed in. Or maybe I skip TDs, SPAA, and SPART altogether and just spam cheap regular tanks. Or maybe I rush amphibious tanks to create special river crossing panzer divisions with high speed on those tanks so they can cross rivers even faster. Or maybe...

I could go on, but you get the point.
 
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Emden1

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When Air XP gets to 150, I upgrade each Air Frame to 100% reliability. Then I upgrade their main stat (Fighters - agility, Bombers- Attack etc). For Tanks, mostly reliability to 100 and sprinkle guns, speed and armor but keep 100% reliability.
 

Secret Master

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When Air XP gets to 150, I upgrade each Air Frame to 100% reliability.

This is not the best choice on fighters.

The number of planes you are losing to accidents at 80+% reliability is tiny compared to the number of extra enemy planes you could be killing with better engines or guns on fighters.

In fact, in some games, I've gone as low as 30-40%, because I'm still killing more enemy planes (per point of XP spent) by boosting agility via engines and guns/range than I would have saved via reliability.
 
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Petite

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planes ~ range and reliability before agility or attack because range wins allways

tanks ~ Hardness and reliability
 

Anaraxes

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planes ~ range and reliability before agility or attack because range wins allwayd
Range equals mission efficiency which equals numbers in the fight. Getting 60% net efficiency in an airzone to 80% is the same as building 33% more aircraft to throw into the air zone (without taking up airbase space or more MIL and resources).
 
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Harin

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For aircraft, I typically upgrade the fighter first and focus on agility first, then range. If I have more XP I will increase range on a bomber type I need.

For tanks, I typically upgrade the gun first, then armor, but balancing with reliability as low reliability in tanks can be expensive. After reading @Secret Master's post, I might try some new things.
 
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MR2

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Learning a few things here, which of course provokes questions...

First? Upgrading FTR Range vs Agility/Speed. I'm getting the impression that Agility is key to winning the battle while Range allows you to get more into the battle. I guess airfield placement/size is also a factor for getting planes into the fight.

Second? I'm still hazy on how to get the armor bonus and clueless on how the piercing vs. armor dance goes. So guns vs. armor. Suppose it depends on who you are and are fighting. So which - AT vs. ARM vs. TD. I know, depends...


I typically use my INF to fix and LARM to encircle. I will experiment with faster than 12 km/h LARM to Overrun. Also toss a LARM into my MAR/MTN/INF Div.
I have very little experience with AT and MARM with no experience using the variants SPxxx.
Currently testing HTD in my INF Div.

As for reliability, I try to upgrade my most expensive toys first - to close to 90%.
 

HugsAndSnuggles

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First? Upgrading FTR Range vs Agility/Speed. I'm getting the impression that Agility is key to winning the battle while Range allows you to get more into the battle.
There's more to it: the larger advantage in active fighters you have, the more 2v1s it's gonna be, so agility won't necessarily compensate for bad mission efficiency (which itself is a pretty ambiguous term).
I'm still hazy on how to get the armor bonus and clueless on how the piercing vs. armor dance goes.
A hefty part of division armour value is based on the most heavily-armored unit in division (with everything else averaged out, so you can't really slap on armoured recon on a 40w inf and cal it armoured... 10w can get away with it early on, though >.>). You get armour bonus if division armour value is higher than enemy piercing, so gun vs armour in land combat is binary: you either get bonus or not.
 
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Anaraxes

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I'm getting the impression that Agility is key to winning the battle while Range allows you to get more into the battle. I guess airfield placement/size is also a factor for getting planes into the fight.
I think you've got the idea. Agility counts, but so do numbers. So the decision at that point isn't necessarily a black-and-white cookie cutter. If you're just fighting in Western Europe, you're not going to hit the same range problems you get in Russia, Africa, the Pacific, or China. So you might prefer agility if you're Germany, range if you're the US. Agility makes your 1v1 fights better; range makes you more likely to have some 2v1s.

I'm still hazy on how to get the armor bonus and clueless on how the piercing vs. armor dance goes.
Check the definition of the stats in the Land Units section of the wiki (and hope that text is still accurate :).

Armor is essentially a binary comparison versus your target's piercing. Their division can either yours theirs, or it can't. If you have armor higher than the enemy piercing, good things happen. Most importantly, you halve the number of hard and soft attacks against you. Offensively, higher armor than enemy piercing also helps because it increases your number of attacks, and also makes each attack do more org damage. (That's what the d4 increased to d6 business in the wiki is about.) Piercing is the opposing stat. If you get higher piercing than your target's armor, they don't get those bonuses. Battalions with high Piercing also tend to come with a large number of hard attacks, making them good at killing enemy armored vehicles.

A really important point is that piercing and armor are not static values. It's easy to look at the stats of one anti-tank gun or one tank, and say, "hey, that can piece me", or "nope, I'm safe". But the armor and piercing values we're talking about are the ones the entire division has, at the moment each combat round is fought. So, the tank's armor value is getting diluted by the infantry or support companies in the division (which have their own value, especially Org; max armor isn't the ideal). Similarly with Piercing. That's calculated as 40% of the highest Piercing battalion, plus 60% of the average of the rest. So just having one AT gun or TD in the division helps out of proportion to the total numbers, but it's still diluted somewhat. (In theory, the field commanders put those assets where they can do the most good, not randomly versus enemies. But there's only so many AT guns in the division to share around.) And both those values depend on current equipment totals. If you lose tanks or AT guns in combat, the armor and piercing values change. So in the field, combat losses, supply, and attrition are going to affect the actual values of your divisions. Carefully designing a tank division on paper to have 0.1 more armor than the enemy's best AT gun doesn't guarantee it can't get pierced in any particular fight. Make sure to keep an eye on the combat readiness of those units and their opposition (as best you know it).

Ideally, you don't need any more Armor than your enemy has Piercing -- but knowing exactly what that number is in the face of changing templates and losses isn't an exact science. Also, since HoI4 is a grand strategy game and not a tactical battle game, it's something you need to consider from a long-term perspective. It takes time to do research and get equipment produced and deployed. So, what's your current situation? Nice edge in armor? Maybe you're good for now -- but what do you expect the enemy to have deployed in a year? How long is your edge going to last, and when do you need to start research to make sure you have new equipment to retain that edge? Enemy just started deploying some new AT technology, or you've switched to a new war against a new enemy, and your LARM can't kick ass the way it used to? Obviously you're going to want to get back in the armor game -- unless you're planning on reducing your offense and digging in, or your strategy is built more around airpower, in which case you might do just enough to keep up rather than launch a massive effort to regain armor supremacy at the cost of other branches.

So yes, "it depends". That's a good thing from the point of view of having an interesting game. For any given patch, some things will be OP, or broken, and shift decisions accordingly. But the game isn't really as simple as "just stamp out nothing but this exact template maximizing this particular state for the entire war". Even if it works, it's boring. So try different approaches, and see what you can to work and what doesn't. Understanding how the stats and systems interact will give you a better idea of how you can shape those different approaches -- because it's also not true from the gamist balance perspective that any equal-cost approach should be and is equally valid and equally likely to win all your wars.
 
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