What kind of military dictatorship will YOU be running?

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CiderMuffin

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Just looked it up and yea that seems to be a part of communism I forgot but the whole point is it requires to be at a point where a state is obsolete which could take thousands of years to complete as the development needed for that would need to be extremely advanced for it to work.
 

wurmkrank

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Going to need citation on Marx saying a state can't exist.

Also again, bodies aren't property. That's a notion created by slavery and serfdom which aren't part of true communism. What part of this aren't you getting?
the idea that you can own the body of someone else is slavery. The idea that you own your own body has nothing to do with slavery. If you didn't own your own body then you wouldn't be able to say "my body" or "my arm" you would have to say "that body" or "that arm". If you don't own your own body then you have no right to claim any profit or product that's produced by your body. The idea that you can "sell access" to your body is in line with private property in the exact same way that you can sell access to a house that you own. You can easily find citations of Marx claiming that true Communism has no state, but you don't need to because the idea of a state contradicts the idea of no classes. Having a state automatically puts people in the state in a class with more power than people who are not in the state. You can argue that a "communist" state can do all the things that you mentioned in your previous post, but you are in fact also arguing that the same state is authoritarian. Just because a state is forcing everyone to be equal and to have equal resources doesn't mean it isn't authoritarian. It means that it fits the definition of authoritarian perfectly.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Just looked it up and yea that seems to be a part of communism I forgot but the whole point is it requires to be at a point where a state is obsolete which could take thousands of years to complete as the development needed for that would need to be extremely advanced for it to work.
For what it's worth, my stance has always been that Communism Is Great In Theory, its just never going to work for as long as humans are humans. We'll need to fundamentally change ourselves on a neurological and psychological level before it could ever work.
 

The Shacks

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Did someone just ask for a citation on if Marks said true communism meant the abolishment of the state....? Hahah, why do you think it was such a betrayal when the Soviets created the Vanguard Party, instead of just getting rid of the state apparatus.
 

AmpsterMan

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Everytime this discussion comes about i think we lose a bit of scope of what the ethos mean and what the policies represent.

Collectivist/Authoritarian, especially the fanatic kind represent everywhere from a dictatorship in human terms, to a literal hive mind where pops are nothing more than semi autonomous apendages to a queen (Enders Game Buggers).

Communism in the human sense can be Egalitarian OR Authoritarian.

EDIT: Furthermore, the game is much more focused on Sci Fi than actual historically correct terms. Instead of comparing to real life governments, the ethos are supposed to drive us to sci fi universes. The rules and mechanics must simultaneously support :

Xenomorphs, Predators, Star Trek Federation, Star Wars Republic, Star Wars Sith Empire, Enders Game Buggers, Starship Troopers Federation (both the movie AND book), Mass Effect council, etc. I for one think it's a tall order and am satisfied, for the most part, with the outcome.
 
Last edited:

wurmkrank

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You can keep saying communism isn't authoritarian all you want, but the facts don't support your assertion. If you force equality of outcome it's authoritarian, period. The Egalitarian ethos in stellaris represents equality under the law, not equality of outcome.
 

SuperGeek89

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You can keep saying communism isn't authoritarian all you want, but the facts don't support your assertion. If you force equality of outcome it's authoritarian, period. The Egalitarian ethos in stellaris represents equality under the law, not equality of outcome.
The point of fully actualized Communism is that you have achieved a perfect society where no one is forcing you to to anything. A fully actualized Communist Society would be Egalitarian, problem is achieving a fully actualized Communist society is about as likely as finding Atlantis.
 

Ratstranger

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Played my first game as Collectivist Militarist Xenophobe going for that classic North Korea in Space feel.

New year, new Authoritarian ethic, but classic stays classic.
 

wurmkrank

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http://m.imgur.com/a/TOpv7

Scroll to the bottom where the descriptions of authoritarian and egalitarian are listed. It's very clear, egalitarian is equal opportunity where no one can tell you how much you can achieve. Authoritarian clearly states that the regime is in control.


Keep in mind these are the non-fanatic versions.
 

GC13

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Scroll to the bottom where the descriptions of authoritarian and egalitarian are listed. It's very clear, egalitarian is equal opportunity where no one can tell you how much you can achieve. Authoritarian clearly states that the regime is in control.
Do note that fanatic egalitarians sound incredibly communist, saying to be on guard against those who think their desires are more important than anyone else's and saying that any society that doesn't look after the needs and rights of its citizens is a crime.
 

BlackUmbrellas

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Do note that fanatic egalitarians sound incredibly communist, saying to be on guard against those who think their desires are more important than anyone else's and saying that any society that doesn't look after the needs and rights of its citizens is a crime.
Yep.

I imagine some people are so thrown off by this because of how Individualism was portrayed as embracing Randian and anarcho-capitalist ideals.
 

CiderMuffin

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Yep.

I imagine some people are so thrown off by this because of how Individualism was portrayed as embracing Randian and anarcho-capitalist ideals.

Yea I kinda hate that individualism and collectivism were so misunderstood by people in the community and even the devs were going "No that's not what they stand for"

Which of course lead to this change.
 

wurmkrank

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Do note that fanatic egalitarians sound incredibly communist, saying to be on guard against those who think their desires are more important than anyone else's and saying that any society that doesn't look after the needs and rights of its citizens is a crime.
where do you see the fanatic egalitarian description? If that's the right description, then I will concede that it could be interpreted as the closest thing to an idealistic concept of "communism" (if you want to pretend that there are no leaders or government as well) however, I would argue that it's even closer to a liberal democracy.
 

wheelman82

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The typical "true communism" discussion isn't going anywhere so please stop, if you want to continue please consider doing it privately and not in a public forum. (I'm not a moderator or anything, but this is just pointless and painful to read)

I'm currently watching LOTGH and am halfway through now, and I want to make an empire based on "The Reich". I guess I would go fanatic authoritarian and militarist, putting everyone in a caste system, obviously. But I don't know how should react to aliens, as there aren't any aliens in the series (as far as I know).
 

GC13

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where do you see the fanatic egalitarian description? If that's the right description, then I will concede that it could be interpreted as the closest thing to an idealistic concept of "communism" (if you want to pretend that there are no leaders or government as well) however, I would argue that it's even closer to a liberal democracy.
The screenshots of both fanatic ethics are in Dev Diary #54.
Fanatic Egalitarian said:
Beware always those who would be despots, under the false presumption that their desires and agendas are somehow more imperative than those of their fellows. A society that does not see to the needs and rights of all of its member [sic] is not a society – it is a crime.
 

Dalinski

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"You are, all of you, vermin. Cowering in the dirt, thinking... what, I wonder? That you might escape the coming fire? No. Your world will burn until its surface is but glass! And not even your Demon will live to creep, blackened, from its hole to mar the reflection of our passage; the culmination of our Journey. For your destruction is the will of the gods! And I...I am their instrument!"

If you don't declare on every nation you meet....I'm telling mom....
 

Drakonn

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"You are, all of you, vermin. Cowering in the dirt, thinking... what, I wonder? That you might escape the coming fire? No. Your world will burn until its surface is but glass! And not even your Demon will live to creep, blackened, from its hole to mar the reflection of our passage; the culmination of our Journey. For your destruction is the will of the gods! And I...I am their instrument!"

This needs to be in a war declaration or insult. That would be fantastic.
 

elitesix

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Apr 26, 2011
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I'll be running one of three aggressive empires, the last one being the most interesting:

Fanatic Militarist
Xenophobe
Military Dictatorship

Fanatic Militarist
Authoritarian
Military Dictatorship

Pacifist
Authoritarian
Materialist
Plutocratic Oligarchy->Science Directorate->Peaceful Bureaucracy

The last empire will always use caste system, to help the population polarize around authoritarian and egalitarian so that there will be less pacifist pops that get unhappy about unrestrictive wars. The materialist is to help research faster and enable science directorate which will counter the decreased weapon tech card probabilities of being pacifist. The peaceful bureaucracy occurs after weapon techs are up to date, the empire goes to war and wins a war, and then wants to administer large amounts of core systems - the +5 core systems lets this aggressive empire snowball even harder.