What is your overall impression for Waking the Tiger so far?

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Sloeberjong

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Generally I'm loving it. I'm working on a Japan playthrough, so I can only comment from that game. I haven't experienced the problems with the battle planner, because I still made my frontlines for my armies separately, works like before (which isn't always great, you do need to babysit them every now and then). I never realized I could give a front to my FM. But then, that might have to do with the fact that I'm playing Japan and I have 1 army to the north of China, 1 invading the east, 1 invading the south. By the time they join up the war is almost done... I also don't really see how I should give 1 order to a FM for all the pacific Islands. I use multiple smaller armies to invade different parts of Asia. Even India, 1 from north, 1 from east, grind on...

The good:
- Command Structure, this is enough for me to get a feel of fronts, HoI3 was too much, this is good IMO;
- Adding Airwings to armies;
- Decisions, especially the timed ones, I was afraid to use "Ichi Go", it gives a great boost, but China was giving me a hard time...;
- Difficulty, the AI is noticeably better, I had a lot more trouble with China than before and they cut me off more than once. It also has to do with the new borderwar mechanic type of thing going on from the Marco Polo incident, but that is also positive. You really need to spend energy (PP) into escalating the war and really get it going. I was really worrying that I would't get China done before I could conquer the rest of Asia;
- Generals and traits, you get more feel for them and you can guide and shape them, they also feel more like people falling ill and getting wounded;
- New Japanese Focus tree (its pretty large and it gives a lot of choices);
- Naval overview;
- Special forces actually feel special now. I use my marines as actual naval assault specialist, when they establish a beachhead the regular infantry comes in and takes over the front, marines move to a new invasion;
- PP is actually worth something and I always have too little.

The Bad (or could use some work/tweaking whatnot):
- Naval game, supposedly convoys and subs should work better, but it feels the same (useless);
- Generals and traits, I find it unclear how many traits you can give them if they level up, I could give a FM some traits from the start so I did, but now he can't gain more, what gives? Also the balance is kind of wacky, did anybody ever get "invader"? You need so much experience in naval invasions that you might get that trait in 1950. And I'm playing Japan while doing loads of naval invasions. This also goes for other (terrain) traits, I've fought 2,5 years in China, but I got 1 general that got a terrain trait, seriously, that's a bit rough...I was expecting my generals to really get better after fighting a war for 2,5 years. It's a good change in general, but the balance is off and the way it works isn't very clear.

All in all it's pretty good expansion IMO. Could use some balance so you actually benefit from the General traits etc.

Looking ahead: Naval rework please! It still feels bland and subs/convoys still don't work unfortunately.
 

Kipsta

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The game is way better. The AI has also been drastically improved, well also heavily profits from the increased combat lengths since even Italy charging straight at France through the Alps takes a long time for all the Italians to die and they even manage to inflict 4:1 losses. Would have been better if such attacks REALLY were a thing of the past, but I have often seen the AI refrain from suicide offensives that it would've done for sure in the previous patch. There definitely is an improvement in that regard, also the AI goes for way better templates now. Soviets should stop focusing light tanks though...never seen them build mediums yet. As a heavy tank player myself there is no challenge dispatching those, plus all my infantry usually has one AT battalion. :p

The submarine "fix" is a great step forward and has improved convoy raiding a ton. Assigning planes to armies is just as awesome as it sounds for convenience. I love the chain of command feature and all the cool army insignia, I make sure there is not a single army without unique insignia. Division name lists...HNNNNNGGGGG.
hoi4_army_setup.jpg
Wish we could move theaters around though so I wouldn't have to recreate them to get them in proper order.

Edit: Forgot to mention equipment capturing. Soooo cool, it felt so good when I noticed my armored divisions running out of tanks and I just switched out two battalions for light tanks of which I captured thousands.
 
Last edited:

long_fella

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Twelve hours spent on two vanilla '36 USSR starts and I won't be playing again until some serious, effective, patching has taken place. I think that sums up my views succinctly enough :(.
 

Eaxy

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The DLC/Patch has good ideas and approaches, but the implementation leaves something to be desired. Some things really needs a revision in my opinion.

To give a point that I personally noticed: As a new neutral German Kaiserreich, much less world tension is produced than normal. So you need as a neutral state at least a world tension of 50% to fabricate claims on others. So if you dont want to fight directly against England, France or Russia, via focus tree, you will be maybe disappointed. That's something that bothered me a lot.
 

GermanDave

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The soft-damage nerf was a bit over-zealous. Battles are now a bit of a slog. A bit disappointed that the game is too hard as Communist China (infiltration too weak). Also, it's sad that AI Japan will always beat AI China in a DLC designed to benefit the latter.
 
Last edited:

Gr1pen

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I stop playing for a really long while, basically for things to get better and more immersive.
What I like:
- AI seems a lot improved to me
- New Command structure is much better
- Decisions are very welcome change!
- Drag and drop is great


What I don't like:
- First play through the bugs are popping up left and right, how can this not be spotted by QA...
- New main menu wallpaper is not for the resolution 2560*1440, it is pixelated, loading screen is fine.
- Lag speed 5 at 24:00


To be honest overall, it feels like a big improvement, thanks for that.

I hope all the bugs can be quickly washed away and that we can focus on more national focus trees for countries like: Finland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Greece, Turkey, Spain, Sweden, Norway etc.

And something that I'd really like to be done is a more detailed map! Like for example: give the Netherlands it's correct amount of provinces or decrease the width of the Rhine, it's way too wide...
 

Broletariat90

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I have yet to actually finish a game due to a goofy bug ruining it. Commie China allying with Japan. Bulgaria or Romania joining with Japan. But I do like the new content. I expected the update to be full of bugs anyways. It's a good game but its really hard to get it functioning properly. I like the new trait system but It takes a while to gain experience. As Germany , I had a general in Spain for two years, never got enough experience to get a trait.

I don't mean to be a negative Nancy but there are some issues, sure they will get fixed in hotfixes. Overall good content, just needs work. Oh and I'm more inclined to play with historical focuses off. For all the goofy stuff I mentioned, it does seem to work slightly better then before.
 

GothicEmperor

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Bug-related wonkiness aside it's a lot of fun. While the game isn't 'done' (ie. put-a-ribbon-on-it-perfected) at this point WTT adds a lot of interesting possibilities and other things to do. The combat AI has seen some marked improvement as well. Only thing Paradox needs to look out for is national focuses no longer corresponding due to the variety of alternate history paths.
 

DominusNovus

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Typical P'dox initial release woes. Lots of great new mechanics, and a bunch of annoying 'how did they miss this' bugs.
 

TorAndreKongelf

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I made a thread like this as well sharing my views before this was one made. But seems like Paradox deleted it. Oh well.

1. I really like namelists!! Oh the amazing namelists!

2. I really like the Chain of Command system. But I feel the experience gain is a bit to low. Been fighting as germany now and taken Poland and soon done with France and they all gained like 20% more XP than they had in 36. Only traits I have been able to give was a few that I got to pick right from the start.

3. Other cool things is the air wing attachment, capture equipement and ofc the decision system.

4. The AI is better. Smarter and puts up a real challange (I play on Ironman Regular). I do fint that entrenchment is a bit over the top now. Since the AI is not shuffling its units around all the time at the borter. I am constantly seeing 30% entrenchment bonus on all the units I am up against. Which makes me need 15 divisions to break a frontline of 4 AI divisions. How realistic this is, I am not sure. I dont think Germany had to spend 150000 men to kill of 2000 belgians in the forrests in Belgium.

I see some strange stuff though. Like right now 15 of my divisions fighting in Benelux for some odd reason decided to take a trip with boats into the English Channel where they met 150 allied ships. And I lost all of them. Nothing I could do about it. I didn't ask them to go there at all.
 

Jeankazuhiza

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Love the content but i feel that the Warlord tree is somewhat incomplete. I wanted to unify china under a Fascist warlord, but nothing at all. Nationalist goes democratic and no fascist politician at all. Also, after Communist China took over Nationalist China in a very peaceful way (I choose Social Democracy of course), i feel that it looks quite like i'm governing a party rather than country, so i think that the Social Democracy way should have an option to proclaim the People's Republic of China as well. (But those are moddable solutions thankfully, although it should take time to dominate it, which i don't think i can have).

Haven't played Manchukuo yet, so i can't have an opinion about it.

It became quite difficult for me to win the German Civil War as the German Military Junta.

Overall, i feel like i'm playing anything but a World War 2.

I'll be taking the BETA in a while.
 

billcorr

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Since the AI is not shuffling its units around all the time at the borter. I am constantly seeing 30% entrenchment bonus on all the units I am up against.

Less AI shuffling.

Are others witnessing less AI shuffling, too?

If this is the case, then +1 point to the developers.

Previously, many customers had complained about the "AI shuffle".

Squelching the shuffle in WtT is a victory.

(good point about the AI's +30% entrenchment bonus)
 

billcorr

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I see some strange stuff though. Like right now 15 of my divisions fighting in Benelux for some odd reason decided to take a trip with boats into the English Channel where they met 150 allied ships. And I lost all of them. Nothing I could do about it. I didn't ask them to go there at all.

This suicidal behavior belongs on the "to do" list for making HoI4 better.

...might even deserve a (another?) bug report.

@TorAndreKongelf , what do you think about submitting a bug report?
 
Last edited:

pvt.conners

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Overall I think the expansion is great, I like the ROC focus tree the most.
I hope Paradox continues to expand the decision system with more generic and historical options.
Stability and War support are also a great mechanics which I hope to see further built-upon in the future.
 

Groovdog

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I made a thread like this as well sharing my views before this was one made. But seems like Paradox deleted it. Oh well.

1. I really like namelists!! Oh the amazing namelists!

2. I really like the Chain of Command system. But I feel the experience gain is a bit to low. Been fighting as germany now and taken Poland and soon done with France and they all gained like 20% more XP than they had in 36. Only traits I have been able to give was a few that I got to pick right from the start.

3. Other cool things is the air wing attachment, capture equipement and ofc the decision system.

4. The AI is better. Smarter and puts up a real challange (I play on Ironman Regular). I do fint that entrenchment is a bit over the top now. Since the AI is not shuffling its units around all the time at the borter. I am constantly seeing 30% entrenchment bonus on all the units I am up against. Which makes me need 15 divisions to break a frontline of 4 AI divisions. How realistic this is, I am not sure. I dont think Germany had to spend 150000 men to kill of 2000 belgians in the forrests in Belgium.

I see some strange stuff though. Like right now 15 of my divisions fighting in Benelux for some odd reason decided to take a trip with boats into the English Channel where they met 150 allied ships. And I lost all of them. Nothing I could do about it. I didn't ask them to go there at all.
3-4 vs 1 offense to defense is congruent with doctrine of the time and even today. Losses on the other hand not necessarily don't flow from that force level directly.

A military history West Point Grad
 

fabius

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3-4 vs 1 offense to defense is congruent with doctrine of the time and even today. Losses on the other hand not necessarily don't flow from that force level directly.

A military history West Point Grad
Definitely. Later Soviet doctrine learned their lessons and even advocated much higher local superiority for key breakthrough points when possible.

I'd add, that even some operation offensives where won be attacking operationally but defending on the tactical level.
 

Baron_Mijail

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I like everything except the new command structure. Managing armies now is awful, specially in the eastern front.
Honestly i would like to se the division limit increased to at least 50 per army.
 

Baron_Mijail

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No just no. The historical number is 12. It should be reduced to 12. Not having this immersing breaking 24 number we have now.

You need to balance historical accuracy and gameplay, and right now managing 200-300 divisions with this system is a headache.
Want 12 divisions per general? nice, do it, but give me the option to reduce the micromanagement mess the battleplaner has become.
 

Admiral Piett

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- The overall impression is good. I'm really enjoying the new Japan tree (with a few nitpicks, like the lacking air power branch that doesn't really reflect how Japanese aviation developed), the improved Japanese aviation tech tree (it's only flavour, but it is nice. I could nitpick still..), and lots of the additions to the Asia-Pacific War. More flavour is always welcome.

- The new command system has promise, but I find the UI with army groups to be clunky at times and the 24 division general limit is quite aggressive considering how few generals even the majors have. It is downright punitive for "smaller" countries like China. I get you can just recruit generic guys to fill out the ranks, but what's the fun in that? General trait gain seems off too. It takes an absurd amount of time to get a trait and some, like invader, are basically impossible to get.

- It is clear there wasn't enough play-testing on how the new China/warlord/CPC/Manchukuo trees would interact. The second you stray from strict historical play all hell breaks loose and tons of wonky, broken things happen. It isn't hitting me too much as I'm a historical player, but my friend has been quite annoyed at how easy it is to completely break the progression of the game by simply going down the ahistorical branches of the trees.

- This is more of a personal preference thing, but I'm pretty lukewarm on decisions. I don't hate them or anything, but meh.

- All the little tweaks and refinements (too many to list) are very nice. I have noticed some AI improvement, which is nice. There is always more to do on that front, but any progress is good progress.

- Naval combat/maritime power in general is still an out-of-control dumpster fire, but that is an issue that really exists outside the expansion. I hope this is a major priority.