What is the status on fixing the Linux bugs?

[StarkRG]

After hearing all the high praise this game has received over the last month I was itching to get a chance to buy it and play it. Since I'm a student I generally don't have any room in my budget for new games, however I was gifted a bit of money this week so I decided to use it on Skylines. Given that Steam has it listed as a Steam Play game and, therefore, compatible with Linux I figured I'd be able to play it without much issue. I suppose I should have done the research as I would have discovered it's virtually unplayable on Linux due to graphical bugs.

At the very least this game should not be listed as released on linux, at best it's early access, but really it's early beta (maybe even late alpha).

The bugs I'm talking about are the non-rendering of the sky, water, roads being built, zones, etc. and the general dark rendering of everything. I realize I don't have the beefiest of machines (i5, 6G RAM, HD Graphics) but it's able to handle some things you wouldn't think it should be able to (KSP, modded minecraft). Given that these bugs were noticed almost immediately after release and have been talked about extensively since that there would be a sticky post here about it (or at least a mention in the FAQ).

Everything I've seen from a month ago tends to be resolved with "they're working on it", which is great. But that was a month ago, there's still nothing mentioned about it in the known issues section of the FAQ nor in the April Update. This is extremely disheartening as it makes it seem like a bug which makes it just about unplayable and certainly not enjoyable is being ignored. I would have thought that something this major would have a high priority and would, at least, have a workaround by now.

I really hope my extremely limited money was not wasted on this game as it looks like a lot of fun. I just wish I could play it.

 

[V10lator]

From the shop site (system requirements) :

Does not support Intel Integrated Graphics Cards

From the FAQ:

Assets not loading, Cannot choose map, no overlay when building roads.
You need to install fglrx drivers.

Now if you still don't get that Mesa isn't supported I don't know.

 

[StarkRG]

Well that is certainly most disheartening. I suppose I'll just have to hope steam allows me to get a refund so I can get a different game instead.

 

[V10lator]

Either that (which is unlikely, you have been warned at the store page for a reason) or you try to play around with the workarounds (UNITY_DISABLE_GRAPHICS_DRIVER_WORKAROUNDS and/or LD_PRELOADing the systems zlib. Just use the search function ) till CO fixes it (AFAIK they are working on it, it's just hard to fix).

//EDIT: On Ubuntu try these start options:

UNITY_DISABLE_GRAPHICS_DRIVER_WORKAROUNDS=yes LD_PRELOAD=/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 %command%

If that crashes use (temporary, this is caused by a random event) :

UNITY_DISABLE_GRAPHICS_DRIVER_WORKAROUNDS=yes %command%

For more informations the search function is your friend.

 

[StarkRG]

you have been warned at the store page for a reason

Is this the warning you're talking about?

Because this is buried right at the bottom of the description. Cities Skylines doesn't have high requirements otherwise and based on gameplay footage I'd seen and other games my computer handles just fine I was confident enough it'd be able to run it that I didn't look at the requirements. My computer runs KSP just fine at medium quality graphics settings and that's a fairly graphics intensive game. For that matter so is modded Minecraft (albeit primarily because it's written in Java). Other than the faded out "Does not support Intel" section at the bottom my computer pretty well matches the recommended setup and there wasn't any other indication that HD Graphics was not supported.

 

[V10lator]

Yes, that's it. Click on "READ MORE" to see it bright and shiny.
Please note that my "unlikely" was based on Valves refund policy. Neither CO nor PI have any influence on that.
Also note that I gave you workarounds + told you CO is working to fix the error. Wasn't that your original concern? Let me show you that every single point of you has been addressed:

I suppose I should have done the research as I would have discovered it's virtually unplayable on Linux due to graphical bugs.

Not true: Workarounds exist.

At the very least this game should not be listed as released on linux, at best it's early access, but really it's early beta (maybe even late alpha).

It works on Linux, expect with Intel graphics, but that's written on the store page (you dislike it being almost hidden? Bug Valve about that, Neither CO nor PI can do anything against that).

The bugs I'm talking about are the non-rendering of the sky, water, roads being built, zones, etc. and the general dark rendering of everything. I realize I don't have the beefiest of machines (i5, 6G RAM, HD Graphics) but it's able to handle some things you wouldn't think it should be able to (KSP, modded minecraft). Given that these bugs were noticed almost immediately after release and have been talked about extensively since that there would be a sticky post here about it (or at least a mention in the FAQ).

Workarounds exists. Your game will run flawlessly if you use them. Official FAQ is missing them cause, well, Intel is still not officially supported. Anyway CO work on fixing that bugs.

Everything I've seen from a month ago tends to be resolved with "they're working on it", which is great.

Exactly.

But that was a month ago, there's still nothing mentioned about it in the known issues section of the FAQ nor in the April Update.

Not officially supported means they won't write it to any official documentation as that would mean it's supported and they would have less time fixing the bugs cause users would hate them as their officially support needs workarounds.

This is extremely disheartening as it makes it seem like a bug which makes it just about unplayable and certainly not enjoyable is being ignored. I would have thought that something this major would have a high priority and would, at least, have a workaround by now.

Again: There are workarounds. I already gave them to you. Also CO is working to fix the bug and enable Intel support officially, it's just not as easy as you think so give them the time they need.

I really hope my extremely limited money was not wasted on this game as it looks like a lot of fun. I just wish I could play it.

You didn't waste your money, just use the )=/%(/"*%/§ workarounds and you will be able to play it like the bugs wouldn't exist!

Sorry for ranting at the end but it seems you completely ignore everything I say and just try to nit-pick every thing you can find to bash CO/PI.

 

[StarkRG]

Neither CO nor PI have any influence on that.

I realize that, it's pretty obvious in fact. I never said anything which suggests I believed otherwise.

Also note that I gave you workarounds + told you CO is working to fix the error. Wasn't that your original concern?

Partially. I was looking for an update beyond "working on it", something along the lines of "we've tried X but are still having troubles with Y, it seems to have something to do with Z but at this point it's not clear. More info in the coming weeks." You know, something new, something that shows progress.

I was also looking for workarounds in the mean time but couldn't find any anywhere. It's as if you think I did absolutely no research before posting. I literally spent a solid hour looking through post after post after post on reddit, steam, and here. I found exactly zero workarounds.

It works on Linux, expect with Intel graphics, but that's written on the store page

That fact is not clear anywhere and the posts I was finding were not singling out Intel graphics (people on radeon were also reporting the issue), but that news was all over a month old.

you dislike it being almost hidden? Bug Valve about that, Neither CO nor PI can do anything against that

While it's not CO nor PI's fault they could certainly bug valve to make that information more prominent. They are, after all, in somewhat of a partnership. Valve being the storefront, CO and PI being the developers and publishers, they certainly have some say in the matter. Ultimately, though, it is up to Valve, I wasn't blaming anyone for the issue, just the site design (which ultimately comes down on Valve).

Not officially supported means they won't write it to any official documentation as that would mean it's supported and they would have less time fixing the bugs cause users would hate them as their officially support needs workarounds.

I'm not asking for an official workaround, but a central source of information would still be helpful. Mojang and Squad don't support modded versions of their games but they still provide a central repository from where you can get assistance from the community. Is that not the point of a public forum like this one?

Again: There are workarounds. I already gave them to you. Also CO is working to fix the bug and enable Intel support officially, it's just not as easy as you think so give them the time they need.

Again, you told me of them once and I haven't had a chance to try them out. I'm not suggesting it's easy, nor am I suggesting that it should be fixed by now, I was merely asking if there was any updates on the progress. Since the initial release there's been exactly zero mention of them working on it except from third parties such as yourself. How do I even know they ARE working on it unless someone from the companies say they are?

just use the )=/%(/"*%/§ workarounds

Getting pissed off when I haven't had the chance to even try them out seems rather unproductive to say the least.

it seems you completely ignore everything I say

I didn't completely ignore everything you said, I responded to one part of your reply that I had a response to while I got ready to try out the workarounds (having to download and install it again[/QUOTE]

just try to nit-pick every thing you can find to bash CO/PI.

Where (other than this post) did I nit-pick anything? Where literally anywhere did I try to bash anyone? If the game is broken on my machine with no workaround (which, prior to you telling me about it, there wasn't) and the information stating it was not clearly presented it seems pretty clear cut that I should seek a refund. I was disappointed, not angry. I don't know where you interpreted anger from.

 

[V10lator]

Partially. I was looking for an update beyond "working on it", something along the lines of "we've tried X but are still having troubles with Y, it seems to have something to do with Z but at this point it's not clear. More info in the coming weeks." You know, something new, something that shows progress.

Now that's something we can talk about. The last info (don't have a link for that right now) is that the ultimate problem is zlib. Somehow the one from the Steam Runtime is f*cked up but the one from your system isn't reliable on (at the workaround you force the using of the system one, in most cases it works, but even when it works you have random crashes depending on the workshop preview images at the main menu). Currently they are searching for a easy, reliable solution (like maybe shipping their own zlib with the game? That's just a guess of me).

I was also looking for workarounds in the mean time but couldn't find any anywhere. It's as if you think I did absolutely no research before posting. I literally spent a solid hour looking through post after post after post on reddit, steam, and here. I found exactly zero workarounds.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?search/63945/&q=intel+workaround&o=date (if the link won't work: Type "intel workaround" into the search field of this forum) - First two results are this post here, the next one links to the workaround, the next one is the workaround...

That fact is not clear anywhere and the posts I was finding were not singling out Intel graphics (people on radeon were also reporting the issue), but that news was all over a month old.

I'm on radeon (r600g) for myself. The zlib workaround is needed here, too, the UNITY_DISABLE_GRAPHICS_DRIVER_WORKAROUNDS is not. The zlib one is a general Mesa think, stopping some pngs from getting loaded, the other is Intel specific, causing the rendering errors you described. Anyway, that's another topic.

While it's not CO nor PI's fault they could certainly bug valve to make that information more prominent. They are, after all, in somewhat of a partnership.

You're in some partnership, too. So please go bug Valve as I dislike that, too, but never found it to be so annoying I have to bug anyone about that. BTW: You'll find this issue with other games too.

I'm not asking for an official workaround, but a central source of information would still be helpful.

Which is the Support & Bug Reports sub-forum. While I agree it would be nice to have some sticky about this topic I also understand this would make it sound like Intel is supported, thus causing more trouble than good in the long run.

Mojang and Squad don't support modded versions of their games but they still provide a central repository from where you can get assistance from the community. Is that not the point of a public forum like this one?

Microsoft (formerly Mojang) owns Bukkit. Also they work/worked (lost track some time ago) on a "official "modding API. How much more support can there be? Bukkit being dead cause of the DMCA takedown is another thing and very off-topic. As the author/maintainer of PortalStick, RideThaDragon and many other Bukkit plugins I know a lot about the things behind the scenes there so trust me when I say modding was supported since day 0... (Damn, now this sounds more like marketing for my Bukkit plugins, which it shouldn't be. So to stop that image: None of my plugins (except PortalStick) is supported anymore. I hate Bukkit... ^^ ).

Again, you told me of them once and I haven't had a chance to try them out. I'm not suggesting it's easy, nor am I suggesting that it should be fixed by now, I was merely asking if there was any updates on the progress. Since the initial release there's been exactly zero mention of them working on it except from third parties such as yourself. How do I even know they ARE working on it unless someone from the companies say they are?

Just trust them when they said it some months back? When there's nothing new to say except "still working on it" why should they waste time writing some post instead of working on fixing it?

Getting pissed off when I haven't had the chance to even try them out seems rather unproductive to say the least.

True, but on the other side I couldn't read your mind. Writing (copy&pasting) the one-liner into Steams start options should be pretty fast so tell us how it worked out. But: Ranting about the store page instead of trying the workaround is also unproductive, don't you agree?

I didn't completely ignore everything you said, I responded to one part of your reply that I had a response to while I got ready to try out the workarounds (having to download and install it again

It sounded different from my PoV. Don't get angry at me now cause you didn't give that information earlier..

Where (other than this post) did I nit-pick anything?

By bashing the store page after I gave you the workaround.

Where literally anywhere did I try to bash anyone?

By bashing the store page after I gave you the workaround².

I was disappointed, not angry. I don't know where you interpreted anger from.

I completely understand you being disappointed, that's why I even took the time to search the workarounds for you and write them down in a copy&pasta fashion. Still for me it looked like you ignore the workarounds and just bash the steam store (well, CO/PI for using the steam store like they do, to be more precise). Do yourself a flavour and try to read this whole thread from my PoV, maybe you'll see what I saw.

Anyway, now everything seems to be cleared and the misunderstandings between us seem to have resolved, too, so let's be friends and not bashing each other to death, okay?

 

[StarkRG]

Let me start with this: It works! Thanks so much. My past disappointment has transformed into elation (although I've failed my first four cities or so by running out of money before I can start charging taxes, but that's how learning curves work). If there's an occasional crash, so be it. I used to run windows, I'm used to the occasional crash without any usable crash information, at least now I'll have a likely suspect.

The last info (don't have a link for that right now) is that the ultimate problem is zlib.

That's good, solid information. It would be nice, however, to have a central repository to keep up to date on such progress direct from the horse's mouth.

Type "intel workaround" into the search field of this forum

In all honesty it seems I searched in every way except that (remember that I hadn't narrowed the issue down to being due to intel graphics.

please go bug Valve

I have. That type of information should be front and centre. No point in reading a game's description if there's no way for me to run it.

Which is the Support & Bug Reports sub-forum. While I agree it would be nice to have some sticky about this topic I also understand this would make it sound like Intel is supported, thus causing more trouble than good in the long run.

Not to any marginally intelligent person. You simply state at the top in big, bold, yellow letters "This information is provided on an as-is basis, Intel graphics is not officially supported. Future updates may and will cause these workarounds to stop working." Linux users tend to be intelligent and patient enough to deal with this kind of information well.

In fact, I think they could push out official support for intel graphics just with the caveat that it may still cause crashes. Use a launcher script which passes those environment variables to the game if intel graphics is detected as the only available graphics driver. Again, I think Linux users tend to be intelligent enough to realize that crashes are inevitable, especially when there's a known issue.

In fact known issues are a staple of the computing world even though they're usually hidden from the general public (though I can't really understand why). Companies maintain databases of known issues with their products and services. The more enlightened of those actually provide that information to their customers (publishing it means that I know it's definitely not my fault and I don't need to go searching for answers).

[Mojang] work/worked (lost track some time ago) on a "official "modding API.

Yeah, they've been saying they've been working on an official modding API since early beta. They've never said they'd stopped working on it but by now nobody believes them at all. See why progress reports are important?

How much more support can there be?

To me "support" is "if it's broke we'll fix it". Unofficial support from inside sources does not count as official support, if it works it works, if not, sorry.

When there's nothing new to say except "still working on it" why should they waste time writing some post instead of working on fixing it?

They're providing progress updates on other stuff, if this is at all a priority for them they should be giving progress updates on this as well. Maybe not in the official update thread since it's not officially supported, however a separate thread or even a developer blog with weekly or semi-weekly updates would fit the bill (hell, even monthly updates that include progress on this issue would be welcomed)

Squad provide a developer blog with weekly "Devnote Tuesdays" providing hints at what each individual or small team are doing. I'm not suggesting that level of detail, but something that shows us that they are, in fact, working on the issue.

Writing (copy&pasting) the one-liner into Steams start options should be pretty fast so tell us how it worked out. But: Ranting about the store page instead of trying the workaround is also unproductive, don't you agree?

I was responding to your assertion that it was unlikely I would get a refund due to the information being on the page. My point was merely that, yes, the information is there, but it's presented in such a way that there is a case to be made that most people would not see that information. While I'm not suggesting I would take them to court over it (as it's a fairly small amount in the large scheme of things and would end up costing more money than it's worth), but I do think I'd have a case.

CO/PI for using the steam store

If anything I was bashing Steam. I don't really like Steam, they've become a virtual monopoly in the business (there are others, but Steam definitely has the vast majority of the market share). I don't blame developers for using Steam, they generally don't have much of a choice. Similarly I don't blame game players for buying from Steam, again, they don't have much of a choice. I do hope that something is done to change this trend, but I'm not at all certain what that would look like. The easiest thing would be for Steam to come to the realization that they are turning into the evil they originally sought to overcome and stop themselves.

In any case I'm glad I've got the game working now, even if it is in a slightly unstable state. Thank you again. I do hope that someone from the dev, support, or management team sees this thread and takes up my suggestion for regular (or even irregular) updates on this and other matters.